How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?

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Hi

We are developing a realtime kernel for the AtMega128.
We are currently in the process of choosing if we should buy the ATJTAGICE
for 300 USD or the ATICE50 for 3500 USD?

1. The problem I see is that the ATJTAGICE inserts break code into the
flash, in order to break.
This implies that the flash has to reprogrammed whenever the break point is
changed. Plus the actual code is infected with JTAGICE break code.

2. The hardware is still running, when an break point is reached. Is it then
possible to debug the source code, if the hardware continious running?

We are also going to make several timing measurements on the software, can
ATJTAGICE do the job?

The problem with the ATICE50 is that it is much more expensive that the
ATJTAGICE, So is it really worth givin 10 times more for the ATICE50 than
ATJTAGICE ?

Thanks,
Jesper, Denmark



Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?
Jesper:

One difference is that the JTAGICE connects to the device whereas the
ICE 50 can actually emulate the mega128.

Also I have an ATJTAGICE and an ATICE50 that I am selling. We have an
extra set that will not be used, so I need to find a home for them.

$180 US for the JTAGICE and  $1000 for the ATICE50

e-mail if interested   eh1@-takethisout-mineralsplus.com




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Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?
Thansk for your replys they have been realy usefull.

I think that we will go for the ATJTAGICE instead of the ATICE50, because of
the price and that it is easy to use in the field, if a product fails.

Thanks again. Jesper Denmark

Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?
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Is this true?  I thought the JTAG hardware in the chip contained
registers and logic to implement most of the breakpoint setting, and CPU
core probing needed to implement the debugger.

I am interested to hear about this.

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--
____________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
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Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?

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ATJTAGICE
is

The Megas have internal hardware breakpoint logic for three (IIRC) hardware
breakpoints.  You don't need to reprogram the flash to change the
breakpoints, but you are limited to those three.  You *do* need to reprogram
the flash for each edit/compile/debug cycle.

The key difference between the two is that the jtagice connects to the
internal debugger port on the chip - it is the actual Mega chip that runs
the code, while the ICE50 is a full emulator.  You get advantages and
disadvantages of each approach - the jtagice can be used on any board and
with any (jtag enabled) chip.  If Atmel bring out a new mega chip with a
hundred pins, you will use the same jtag ice for it (requiring at most a
firmware update).  If you need to test electrical characteristics of the
chip, such as ADC accuracy, the jtag ice is a better bet since you are using
the real chip.  Connection is much easier too - you just need to add a
10-pin header to the card, and you can have the connector on production
versions of the cards.  With an emulator, you have a battle getting a good
connection to your cards, and have to make special versions of the cards for
use by development folk.  On the other hand, with the emulator you get much
faster downloads, lots of breakpoints, trace, timing information, etc.



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then
can
than



Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?
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Hmm.  Once the breakpoint is hit in the code, can one then single step
after that with the JTAG ICE, or can you only stop there and get a
register dump, memory dumps, etc.?

It would seem that running from flash wouldn't allow single stepping.

I'm getting closer to actually buying one of these things, so I'd like
to learn how they work.

Good day!


--
____________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
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Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?

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hardware
reprogram
runs
and
using
good
for
much

Yes, you can single-step - there are in fact four hardware breakpoints, and
AVR Studio reserves one of them for single-stepping.  You might want to have
a look at the avrfreaks web site, where they have lots of reviews and users'
comments on various tools.  It's a while since I used the jtag ice for
serious debugging, so I don't remember all the details.




Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?
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That's no "true" single-step - in fact just a breakpoint is set on the
following address, but if an interrupt arose, that next instruction may
never be reached because the ISR might have screwed up things.

"Real" single-stepping in that case would relocate my view so that I could
watch the instructions in the interrupt handler as they're processed.

BTW, rumors say that coming ATmega256 doesn't have JTAG but only DebugWire.
Words about DebugWire say that indeed setting breakpoints means
modification of flash contents.

Kolja











Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?

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and

That's true.  The jtagice does not have as good debugging functionality as
the full emulator.  But it's got enough for most jobs - I could not justify
the price of the full emulator (but then, I don't work with avrs all the
time - it depends on your situation) for the use of the missing abilities.

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DebugWire.

I haven't heard about that chip at all, nor do I know details of DebugWire.
It's been a while since I poked around Atmel's website or avrfreaks.

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Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?
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you can try our AVR-JTAG $39.95 http://www.olimex.com/dev
it's complete ATJTAGICE replacement

Best regards
Tsvetan
---
PCB prototypes for $26 at http://run.to/pcb (http://www.olimex.com/pcb )
Development boards for PIC, AVR and MSP430  (http://www.olimex.com/dev )

Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?

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"Complete" isn't true - it doesn't have the circuits for voltage level
conversion and works with 5V targets only, whereas Atmel's JTAG-ICE could
be used with ATmega*L devices at lower voltages just as well.

But for 5V targets it's really cool (I'm currently using it!) due to its
size and - price. I wouldn't ever consider to spend hours on building a
similar one myself ;-)

Well, if YOU want to, take a look at http://avr.openchip.org/bootice /

If you own some STK where you can put a ATmega16 in and clock it at 7.3728
MHz, you're almost done with your homebrew JTAG-ICE ;-)

Kolja

Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?
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correct, although the only reason for not working on less 5V is that
our distributor didn't keep L version of ATMega16 we put inside, if
you replace the chip with L version it will operate on less 5V (does
anybody when there is MSP430 for 3.3V operation?)
 
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absolutely true

Best regards
Tsvetan
---
PCB prototypes for $26 at http://run.to/pcb
(http://www.olimex.com/pcb )
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?

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could

I thought *all* msp430's worked at 3.3V, at least the msp430f13x family.
They also work quite happily at 6.5V, as I found out on a card with a dud
voltage regulator...


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7.3728



Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?
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No way! There are some C versions which work on 5V but all F parts we
have tried (by accident of course) die instantly over 4.0V!

Best regards
Tsvetan
---
PCB prototypes for $26 at http://run.to/pcb
(http://www.olimex.com/pcb )
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?

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I can se that you have a distributor in Denmark, where I come from. But they
do not have the product on their list.
What should I do, if I want to buy your product?

Jesper, Denmark

Re: How to select ATJTAGICE or ATICE50?
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If Demotech have no stock you can order direclty from us, the
instructions are on our web
Best regards
Tsvetan
---
PCB prototypes for $26 at http://run.to/pcb
(http://www.olimex.com/pcb )
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.

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