Good SVN client?

For Tortoise, all these are done using the "tortoise svn" menu in explorer. To check out a repository (or a directory within the repository) into a folder, you use "svn checkout" from the menu. Once you have a checked out folder, commits, updates, add, rename, delete, etc., are all on the menu.

For another client, you could try . Also look at

I do understand that, but nothing in Tortoise seems to work the way I'd expect. Files updated by another team sometimes show up as modified, sometimes not. I can hit refresh and still it shows with a green checkmark. I can right-click the folder and update all, and it doesn't change the files on my hard drive. Only when I manually go to each file can I get the latest version. But this doesn't always happen; it's random.

I still haven't worked out how to compare two versions in the repository.

It all seems to center around the fact that Tortoise relies on shell integration and does all sorts of cutesy tricks. Using my RCS is a modal operation for me anyway, I'd much rather have something that's a standalone app.

AnkhSVN 1.x is not a real SCC provider, but a hack. AnkhSVN 2.0 is a real SCC provider but still in development.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Frank-Christian Krügel

Meld and SmartSVN is the only decent GUI SVN clients I've found (I've tried at least a half-dozen). Meld is strictly for managing a working copy and doesn't browse repositories. It's a GTK app so in theory it could run under Windows, but I wouldn't bet any money on it.

SmartSVN does what you're asking for (AFAICT).

Don't bother trying RapidSVN. I've tried it repeatedly during the last couple years and it's still pre-alpha. It crashes constantly, it locks up, when browsing a repository it mysteriously omits large chunks of files, it fails with mysterious errors when trying to fetch/view/compare certain files that SmartSVN has no trouble with, and so on. All in all, I've found it to be useless for day-to-day work.

I do understand that, but nothing in Tortoise seems to work the way I'd expect. Files updated by another team sometimes show up as modified, sometimes not. I can hit refresh and still it shows with a green checkmark. I can right-click the folder and update all, and it doesn't change the files on my hard drive. Only when I manually go to each file can I get the latest version. But this doesn't always happen; it's random.

I still haven't worked out how to compare two versions in the repository.

It all seems to center around the fact that Tortoise relies on shell integration and does all sorts of cutesy tricks. Using my RCS is a modal operation for me anyway, I'd much rather have something that's a standalone app.

Try TkSVN (using ActiveTCL from ActiveState).

-p

We have been using TortoiseSVN for about 18 months. From my point of view it is great an actually works exactly as expected. We're using it with XP. Also we are using the FSFS option on SVN.

RightClick->ShowLog then on the log right click on the file and select ShowDifferences

Command line?

Rocky

For what its worth - we have been using TortoiseSVN for yonks and are really pleased with it - excellent. Moved from ClearCase and have not looked back (except to gloat).

-- Regards, Richard.

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Ah well, compared to ClearCase, clay tablets and knotted strings would be brilliant.

I like the "do what I want, not what I say" development model also.

Tortoise is different from you other "tool". Give it a chance. The shortcomings you see now likely have less to do with the tool than might appear.

To update your view of the repository, right click on file or directory in Explorer. Select "Check for modifications." This works better for me than the alternative of continually polling. This has more meaning when the repository is remote, rather than on the same LAN.

Use the log view to compare 2 revisions, or to compare against your working copy. Right click on the file or directory. Select "Show log". You should be able to run with it from there.

I'm pretty confident the "problems" in your next few days will be similarly easy to solve. Don't hesitate to read the manuals before getting all upset and excited. Failing that, right click will usually find what you're looking for. Administrative, repository level operations still require some knowledge and the CIL. That, too, matches my preference. When you're ready, the entire O'Reilly book is on the web for free download.

Perhaps you missed the line I requoted above. A supercilious answer of this sort helps nobody. I'm looking for a piece of software that looks something like an ftp client and nothing like a shell extension.

And not in a useful way. I've defined the problem as "help me find something that doesn't work like Tortoise because I hate its user interface and it doesn't mesh with the way my team is accustomed to work"; please don't be a zealot.

And this doesn't work always. Sometimes it's necessary to view the log of the file before it "catches" that it has been updated.

This repository is on the other end of a fairly slow connection (~256kbps) in another country. Most of the rest of the team is at the other end of an even slower connection in yet another country.

I don't see any way to compare two revisions in the log. I have to download one version as my "working copy" and compare against that.

Tortoise tries to be clever and, like most such software, succeeds in being very difficult to use. I'm migrating not only myself, but a half- dozen other engineers from SourceSafe, which has a very modal, what- you-see-is-what-you-get interface.

I've had some problems with Tortoise CVS also. It somehow seems to make some of my shared folders read-only. I use shared folders to move files between the 5 machines behind the switch that connects me to the cable modem, and those read-only glitches often mean that I have to reboot a machine to be able to delete files or folders. It could be WinXP or it could be Tortoise---but I'm not really interested in spending a lot of time figuring it out.

Tortoise also wants me to enter a password about every 15 seconds to update a remote repository. Pfui! It was the customer's choice, so I just have to live with it. I reserve the right to be grumpy, though. At age 61 with 30 years of embedded software experience, I figure I've earned that right.

Mark Borgerson

Perhaps you missed the line I requoted above. A supercilious answer of this sort helps nobody. I'm looking for a piece of software that looks something like an ftp client and nothing like a shell extension.

==== I don't think I missed it. I think I addressed it in the only way possible.

You have to ask yourself, whose problem is this anyway, yours or mine?

And not in a useful way. I've defined the problem as "help me find something that doesn't work like Tortoise because I hate its user interface and it doesn't mesh with the way my team is accustomed to work"; please don't be a zealot.

========= Frankly, I've phrased a question or two in my lifetime. Yours sounded much more like a piss and moan. If you don't like it or the answers, Google works fine on a 256 kbit line. In the meantime, you already have the tools you ask for. Don't let me hold you back.

I don't see any way to compare two revisions in the log. I have to download one version as my "working copy" and compare against that.

=========== So make a working copy. That's how Tortoise works. What, exactly, did you think a File Explorer add-on would explore?

This will work without a working copy: right-click any file in Explorer; Repo-browser. Navigate the tree. Right click; Show log. Click a revision; ctrl+click a second revision. Right click; Compare revisions.

I'll grant you, the Repo-browser part isn't obvious. The manual works, though. Someone on your team should read it. It probably shouldn't be you.

Tortoise tries to be clever and, like most such software, succeeds in being very difficult to use. I'm migrating not only myself, but a half- dozen other engineers from SourceSafe, which has a very modal, what- you-see-is-what-you-get interface.

========== All kidding aside, it's not the tool. It's your insistence on how CM tools should and must work. As sure as rain, I'll hear it twice more this year face to face. At least one newly joined team member, before his second month is done, will gripe with wide-eyed sincerity and heart-felt emotion about the crappy version control interface. He might actually believe he's the first to foist the insight.

SVN is as close to universally accepted as I've found. You don't have to be a zealot, but you *do* have to go back out there tomorrow and make it work. And I don't mean the tool; that works fine already.

I'm not going to try to persuade you to like the way Tortoise looks and works - that's a matter of opinion. But a number of its features are somewhat hidden - comparing two revisions is one of these. If you use the "show log" or "revision graph" commands from the right-click menu, you can select two revisions (hold down "control" while clicking on the second - I told you it was somewhat hidden), then you have a new right-click menu for doing compares and differences. It sounds long-winded when explaining it here, but it works quickly in practice.

Another point about tortoise is that it adds icons (plus, minus, tick, cross, etc.) to icons in explorer. The trouble is, explorer is not always good at updating these properly. XP is better than W2K at this, but there are still times when the icons on the directory tree are not updated properly. I find closing and reopenning the branches on the directory tree is effective at updating the icons.

You are mixing up client interfaces and server backends here.

SourceSafe may have a nice interface (I have not used it myself, but I have customers who do), but the back end and the protocol are a total disaster of bad design and bad implementation. There are innumerable articles on the web describing SourceSafe's failings - the main points are that it uses open windows shares for communication, the entire repository (not just the current checkin) can be irretrievably corrupted on a network error during a checkin, the supplier recommends rebuilding the repository on a weekly basis to avoid corruption, and the supplier never uses it themselves, but buys a third-party product.

The back-end for Subversion does not have any of these sorts of issues.

At the front end, it may be a different matter. The most common subversion front-ends are the command line interface, Tortoise on windows, Kdesvn on Linux, and a variety of integrated clients for various editors (like Eclipse).

Another list of clients is :

If you are working over such slow links and are widely separated, have you also considered using distributed source control rather than a centralised server? I don't know what clients are available for git, other than the command-line, but it is certainly suitable for large projects with lots of developers.

Well said.

Only if the tool has 100% accuracy in determining what I want. Too many times I've seen tools that try to do that decide that what I said wasn't what I meant, when in fact it was. The tool then cleverly does something I definitely did NOT want it to do.

In general I'm *much* happier with tools that do what I say. If I say the wrong thing, I'm slightly annoyed, but if I say the right thing and the tool does the wrong thing, I'm *extremely* annoyed.

If the tool thinks I said the wrong thing, at most it should ask me something like "You said you wanted ABC, but I think you really meant DEF," and let me choose between the two or cancel.

I can understand your frustration. I've been using TortoiseSVN for a couple of years now, and have learned to live with its "eccentricities" as I, for one, do prefer an integrated client.

Right click on your sandbox copy, and "Show Log". In the log window, CTRL-click 2 revisions and "Compare Revisions".

At whatever level is appropriate (file, directory or complete tree), select "Check for modifications" - this will show local changes only. ow select "Check repository" - this will add changes made in the repository.

We've occasionally used the merge option and it's generally pretty good. I can't recall any *major* dramas with it...

Generally speaking, it's reasonably accurate when reporting on the state of files in the repository. i.e. local changes and repository updates, so the commit and update commands appear to work well.

Most problems seem to revolve around the .svn directories and their contents - be careful you don't inadvertantly corrupt them. We've also had quite a bit of trouble in the past with Quartus projects - gets into a state where SVN thinks some files are locked and Quartus thinks they're write-protected, and we're at a stalemate. In some cases, persistent use of the SVN Cleanup and turning off Attributes->ReadOnly has helped, but one must bw holding their tongue *just* right to get it to work.

What you're looking for is windows-based freeware that Just Works. That's extremely difficult to find at the best of times... ;)

Regards,

...

Are you absolutely sure you have set password-related options correctly? As far as I remember- there is an options to remember password. But as I don't use GUI for VCS... I might be wrong here.

M.W.

Well, the SVN CLI gives you diff format as an output. Provided, that your priority is to have visualization, not usage of specific GUI tool, use CLI, simple scripting and a tool that can compare two files and you're done. (I'd use svn, patch, and some compare tool; or Vim... :P ).

Don't cripple your SVN with locking...

I've heard that many times. I wouldn't trust ClearCase in this case, but I do trust subversion. It just works. And is inherent. When you update local copy, you merge, period. When you check in- you put merged version in. If there's newer version- you won't be able to.

Actually- what do you need that for? To merge by hand? Well, if you have some more time to waste... In most cases, when there are sources, that can't be merged automatically, you'll be notified and source files will have marks, where the conflict occurred. Besides, you'll have to resolve conflict to be able to check in offenders.

Regards,

M.W.