snipped-for-privacy@a26g2000vbo.googlegr
Sure that just gets you up to the right temperature faster, once your piece of meat is at whatever cooking temperature you desire it will take the same time to 'cook'. (Hard for me to call 130 F cooking... can you hold your finger in the 130 F water?)
Sorry for the obsessing comment.
George H.
George Herold wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@y31g2000vbp.googlegr oups.com:
Getting to the right temperature faster goes, at least in part, to the health question you raised initially.
The idea is that you want to go from refrigerator temperature to "cooking" temperature (I agree, 130 is cooking?) as quickly as practical.
Why?
To minimize time at the temperatures at which problem organisms flourish.
Which is why most limit the size of cuts to about 3" thick to make sure that internal temperature is reached soon enough to be safe.
I think that you're right though, once it's at 130, a standard oven might work too. Although, since we've already troubled to build the water bath, it's probably just as easy to just use it and keep things both simple and within a narrower temperature range common with standard ovens.
Jesse
innews:Xns9EDE83B3A34Bjesseatnospamdotcom@127.0.0.1:
Blech, boiled beef. You have to caramelize it to make it taste good. Roasted at 425F in a convection oven or over charcoal is the One True Way.
Cheers
Phil "obligate carnivore" Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net http://electrooptical.net
Phil Hobbs wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@electrooptical.net:
I really don't want to debate the merits of this method, but was only seeking information on how to economically implement it.
Since Phil already replied, I'll make a single exception and point out that food is not boiled, it's first packaged in a water tight pouch (eg FoodSaver) and then gently poached. Rather than searing before hand (to achieve the Maillard reaction) it is usually seared afterward.
If you're interested in learning whether this cooking technique is for you, this newsgroup probably isn't the best forum for doing so. There's lots of information on the 'net about it, by those who have studied it at length.
I'm not here to advocate anything one way or another. In fact, I too was skeptical at first, dismissing sous vide as yet another, soon to pass, fad. I decided to build this experimental DIY rig to settle the issue one way or the other and, to my surprise, am glad that I did.
Jesse
tcom@127.0.0.1:
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Oh come on now Phil, Certainly you like a nice pot roast. Slow cooked all day with lots of taters, carrots and onions. Our 'secert' family recipe calls for half a jar of horse radish spread on top to the roast after it's browned. mmmm, all this food talk is making me hungry.
George H.
innews:Xns9EDE83B3A34Bjesseatnospamdotcom@127.0.0.1:
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Yum, you betcha, but _browned first_. Real boiled beef is repulsive.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net http://electrooptical.net
Very interesting Jesse, Do you worry about some kind of bacteria growing at 130F? And how long do you have to let the meat cook? I was the lunch cook at a fairly nice restuarant for about a year. The first thing I did when I came in the morning (~5:30 AM) was to start the prime rib for the evening. Started at ~220F for a few hours and then dialed down to
170F IIRC.I think you are obsessing excessively about a few degrees, of temperature fluctuation.
Bon appetit, George H.
I'd like to add a new wrinkle, "meat glue" butchers have started gluing small pieces of meat together to make full size pieces and it is difficult to tell. Besides possible problems with the chemical, any bacteria that was on the outside is now on the inside. If you cook it rare you won't kill the bacteria. Jesse's method may kill the bacteria, but usually the recommended temp is
160*, his long cooking time at 130* may kill bacteria. Meat Glue video."amdx" wrote in news:5ecf6$4dc83be4$45013905$ snipped-for-privacy@KNOLOGY.NET:
Thanks for the response, but please understand that I am no expert on this subject and it is hardly "my" method. What I know about it, I've learned from the 'net, which you can do at least as well as I have.
Perhaps chief among my doubts about this approach was that of safety. In that, as both you and George have pointed out (as well as many before us) I was hardly alone.
Still, the 130 threshold seems to be the magic number, one of the reasons why hitting it and holding it is so important. If it rises too high, you loose the medium-rare target you're trying to hit. Too low and you offer pathogens an increasingly hospitable habitat.
Interestingly, this setpoint applies exclusively to beef. In cooking pork or poultry, little concern over the result being medium-rare is present, so these can and often are cooked at a higher temperature.
What is actually of concern here, I think, is really just pasteurization. If you've ever done any camping, or maybe just watched Survivor, you probably know that rendering water potable is not just a function of temperature, but of time as well.
Thus eggs can be made safe by heating them until the yolks are set (~160°F). But it's thought that they can also be cooked in the shell at 135°F in a sous vide water bath for at least 1 hour and 15 minutes to achieve parallel safety.
For a general introduction to sous vide cookery, please see...
For some background on the approach, please see Amanda Hesser's piece, Under Pressure,
For lots more information on sous vide, please search egullet.com.
I'm afraid this is the best I can do in explaining the method. It was precisely because I wanted to avoid becoming the go to guy to learn all about this lunatic cooking approach was the reason why I left out the specific nature of my "DIY cooking project". It was only because some were growing uncomfortable with just what is was that I was, uh, "cooking" that I reluctantly mentioned it all.
Again, there's tons of stuff on the 'net on all this. If anyone in this group wants to know more, google is your best guide.
Jesse
+All truth passes through three stages... &c &c &c. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
"amdx" wrote in news:5ecf6$4dc83be4$45013905$ snipped-for-privacy@KNOLOGY.NET:
Thanks for the response, but please understand that I am no expert on this subject and it is hardly "my" method. What I know about it, I've learned from the 'net, which you can do at least as well as I have.
Perhaps chief among my doubts about this approach was that of safety. In that, as both you and George have pointed out (as well as many before us) I was hardly alone.
Still, the 130 threshold seems to be the magic number, one of the reasons why hitting it and holding it is so important. If it rises too high, you loose the medium-rare target you're trying to hit. Too low and you offer pathogens an increasingly hospitable habitat.
Interestingly, this setpoint applies exclusively to beef. In cooking pork or poultry, little concern over the result being medium-rare is present, so these can and often are cooked at a higher temperature.
What is actually of concern here, I think, is really just pasteurization. If you've ever done any camping, or maybe just watched Survivor, you probably know that rendering water potable is not just a function of temperature, but of time as well.
Thus eggs can be made safe by heating them until the yolks are set (~160°F). But it's thought that they can also be cooked in the shell at 135°F in a sous vide water bath for at least 1 hour and 15 minutes to achieve parallel safety.
For a general introduction to sous vide cookery, please see...
For some background on the approach, please see Amanda Hesser's piece, Under Pressure,
For lots more information on sous vide, please search egullet.com.
I'm afraid this is the best I can do in explaining the method. It was precisely because I wanted to avoid becoming the go to guy to learn all about this lunatic cooking approach was the reason why I left out the specific nature of my "DIY cooking project". It was only because some were growing uncomfortable with just what is was that I was, uh, "cooking" that I reluctantly mentioned it all.
Again, there's tons of stuff on the 'net on all this. If anyone in this group wants to know more, google is your best guide.
Jesse, But we all found it interesting, we wanted to hear about it. I just added the "meat glue" info because it was new to me. Mikek
How hot is the air that comes out of the car heater by your foot? I once heard a UL about some guy who was driving and felt drowsy, so he pulled over, but left the engine running, with the windows open a bit so he wouldn't gas himself, and the heater going so he wouldn't freeze.
Anyway, the UL was that the guy slept for several hours and when he woke up, he found that his foot had been cooked. It sounds a little implausible; I wonder if that UL debunker has anything on that.
What's the URL of the UL debunker site?
Thanks, Rich
All the cooking shows that slow-cook beef say to first brown it all over in a searing-hot skillet first, _then_ slow-cook it, and also use the liquid from the sear in the stew or pot-roast recipe.
BTW, it's nice to see such a long on-topic thread. ;-D
Cheers! Rich
Ah! An experiment!
I, too, love Science. ;-)
Cheers! Rich
I once read somewhere that acetone and water are 100% miscible, but I'd be pretty reluctant to taste it!
Cheers! Rich
OGY.NET:
Hey don't worry about it. Life is dangerous, you could die at any moment. I love raw shellfish. Some day it might make me sick or worse.
There're people here that can tell you how to do milli-C temperature control, sometimes that's important. I don't think the meat is going to be much different if cooked at 130C or 131C. (There will be more than a 1% variation in each slab of meat, don't ya think?)
Hmm, your fluctuations are +/-0.6 C, but what's your accuracy?
George H.
Yeah that doesn't sound right. You've at least got blood flowing in and out that will take the heat away. (You can keep your finger in,, ? 120F water?)
George H.
.
Yeah, the whole point of pot roast is to turn the dripping's into gravy. You've got to know about rue, to make a good gravy.
Off topic??
George H.
On May 7, 9:56=A0am, Jesse wrote: > I have a DIY cooking project with which I'd appreciate some > help. >
It's a resistive element with e thermostat? put it on a lamp dimmer and dial whatever power level you want. Go really crazy and put it in a servo loop. THAT would be a learning experience.
G=B2
If you want to turn a cooker into a constant temperature bath just get a SousVideMagic controller. It has been in use by thousands of users over the world for over 3 years. It is the same controller is being featured in Modernist Cuisine.
Nah, I think we've got an unwritten agreement that if it's about food, it's usually allowed - everybody likes good recipes. :-)
And for that other thing,
It's essentially flour mixed in with the drippings, and cooked like gravy or sauce.
Cheers! Rich
That's pretty much sushi. Ever tried any live? Can't get any fresher than live! ;-)
Remember when Riker was on that Klingon ship in some officer-exchange program? He looked at the goch, and said, "It's still moving!" and some Klingon said, "goch is always best when served live." ;-)
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