The joys of having a non technical manager.

My non technical manager thinks that our (very) complex electronic products shouldn't have prototype stages in the project plan because electronics engineers should aim to 'get it right first time'. This guy has had 20 highly successful years of managing the production of speakers, and treats every little design problem as a sign of incompetance (and I do mean little).

Has anyone else had this kind of experience and how did you cope?

Reply to
sfisher
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I think most people in the techical arena have experienced that management doesn't comprehend or understand what makes their development (future) or products (current) tick. Just read the history of tech business, it's full of this phenomen. Assuming failure is one way to avoid really bad gotchas. That is having the prototype fail, rather than a significant part of the customer base.

Reply to
sky465nm

We cope by getting it right the first time.

My company philosophy is to go from paper to production. That means no prototypes. The rev A drawings and parts lists and manuals are formally released, manufacturing builds a few, and we make them work. Over 90% of the time, we can sell rev A.

We do simulate or breadboard small circuits if we feel that we don't fully understand the parts, but mostly we design from the datasheets. But we never simulate or prototype whole products.

Prototyping is self-fulfilling. If you assume the first (or second, or third) iteration won't be right, you won't make the effort to get it right. The insidious factor is that debugging by testing prototypes seldom finds all the bugs... *especially* when the designers are the ones doing the testing.

We do keep a NEXT file on every rev of every product. Anybody in the company can add comments or requests for things to be changed on future revs. Manufacturing creates a lot of these, like about mechanical clearances, or requests for test points, things like that. Before we order future/large batches of boards, we review the NEXT file to see if it's worth spinning the board.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

Assuming failure practically guarantees it.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

You make them work? Sounds like a prototype by a different name.

Reply to
The Phantom

That's how I usually design. White sheet, sharp pencil -> CAD -> Layout

-> Fab.

That would be the point to look for a new job. Everybody makes mistakes, sometimes datasheets are over-hyped and you are bound to run aground, and so on. If a manager turns this into insults it's time to leave.

I've worked with lots of non-tech managers. Never had a problem. A manager does not necessarily need to have expertise in all the stuff his engineers do. However, he/she must be a good organizer, conflict solver, generalist and motivator. Sounds like the latter is what's sorely lacking here.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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Reply to
Joerg

Of course we have to make them work. The difference is that we can write an ECO to manufacturing to tweak the rev A units, then sell them. Most of the ECOs are just BOM changes, gain tweaks and such.

A typical gadget will have an FPGA or two (or more) and a microprocessor. This one

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has about 7K lines of VHDL and 6.6K lines of assembly code. Rev A works great. We don't usually start on the firmware or VHDL until the hardware drawings are formally released. And they are not going to work the first time, although both are usually pretty close. The great thing about fixing firmware is that it doesn't show... no kluge wires, no lifted pads, no pcb spins.

It's common to change a few parts values during first-article test, and to sometimes add a kluge or two. Neither keep us from selling the rev A pc board.

This discipline saves time and money, and results in better products shipped.

I recently, actually wanted to prototype a small output driver circuit, for inclusion in a fairly complex family of products. After deciding to make a pcb prototype, I figured I may as well design it to go into one of our standard boxes, essentially to productize the prototype circuit. It worked pretty good, so we named it as a sellable product, still rev A. The little undershoot hook is the only blemish, and we understand it now (which was the point of prototyping this circuit) but we can still sell it.

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Sort of the tail wagging the dog here.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

Anytime I've had an asshole for a boss I simply quit.

IIRC Motorola re-hired me about six times... each time included a raise ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

ause

Buy your manager a copy of Peter Senge's "Fifth Discipline".

Probably available as an audiobook.

Reply to
mpm

How often does a linear IC design work the first time?

John

Reply to
John Larkin

My 46 year batting average is better than 99%

Of course I've had quite a few designs where the customer says, "I know that's what we spec'd, but that's not what we wanted" :-(

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

Look him right square in the eye and say, "That's what my last manager said."

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought 
without accepting it."
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Reply to
RST Engineering (jw)

Interestingly the manager in my last job did. That's why I'm now in this job - the previous manager in this job was great - what he called 'normal developmental issues' are now basis for all sorts of accusations. He tragically died earlier this year and now I'm back in the same situation. Before my last job I had 15 or so good years of praise and raise.

Reply to
sfisher

In the early days had a couple like that. Ex forces people who never made the military officer class but on being made industrial managers assumed they'd get instant respect and attention from the technical oiks. Doesn't work that way. Your only viable option is to change jobs or leave (and do it now!). He won't be changing. He's a good track record in "speakers" and it'll need a lot of his people baling out before -his- managers take the hint. Later on I had some good managers. The good ones basically figure out who they can (and cannot) trust and then build up a technical support structure that allows the work to be done.

Your man's right though to proclaim "aim to get it right first time" but he can only ever, ever, ever, be allowed to issue this statement if he's proved that he can come on -your- job and sort -your- problems out. He's talking bollocks otherwise. Only products that don't require prototypes are wholly digital or simple analogue. Beyond a few transistors or a few MHz there's interaction and it's cheaper and faster to build a physically accessible prototype.

Today been working on a AD9951 DDS with 2 AD8099's opamps. Setup needs a filter. Past experience said I'd have trouble, so prototyped it before committing to the design. Yep, the nice 120MHz low pass leaked like a sieve. Cured by a tin can casing and some real inductors. Now left with musing on how to kill the strong 1.2GHz oscillation of an AD8099. No way could this design have gone straight to PCB.

Reply to
john jardine

Mine is 100%. Then again, I only did one on my own :-)))

Well, at least it was a high voltage design.

I guess that's why us consultants usually bill time, travel and materials.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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Reply to
Joerg

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Thanks for the mail. I'm sure you've come across the type who just can't see how you couldn't have foreseen those things and unfortunately people confuse the ability to find fault with the ability to do a better job in the same situation.

PS someone once told me the trick of using low value resistors in series with the feedback capacitors of op amp LP filters to stop HF oscillation.

Reply to
sfisher

Most of my chip designs are quoted fixed fee, but with several paragraphs to cover charges for various degrees of ECO's.

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

Suggest he propose his unique design philosophy to managers at Boeing!

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©
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Reply to
RFI-EMI-GUY

Some things you have to get right the first time. Mountain climbing. Skydiving. Single-hand ocean sailing. Building jet planes.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

Ask him if he would rather sign off on the bill of materials for a 100 piece pilot run or a million piece production run.

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©
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Reply to
RFI-EMI-GUY

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