Techniques for creating a 1GHz signal

Gents,

I may have toe venture from my cozy home in the sum 10MHz range to the high frequency RF stuff on the hundreds of MHz to low GHz range.

First order of business is a 1GHz signwave generator.

What are the common techniques for generating something that high?

DDS? Hartley type oscillator, Crystal with upper harmonic filter to isolate the 1GHz band. I'm thinking this will be the input to some buffer so the output can hump some power. ~1W range into 50 ohms.

No detailed specs at this point just trying to get a head start on some common techniques before the project kicks off.

Reply to
mook johnson
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I forgot to mention that this needs to be a circuit on a PCBA not a piece of test equipment.

Reply to
mook johnson

On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:14:47 -0600) it happened mook johnson wrote in :>

Twisted wire oscillaor:

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From:
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Pictjure:
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My version:

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Reply to
Jan Panteltje

Have you looked at Gilbert cells into a high pass filter.

Jamie

Reply to
Jamie

A very easy way is an Analog devices ADF4350 and a filter. Not cheap though...

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply 
indicates you are not using the right tools... 
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to
Nico Coesel

If quantities are not huge, buy a VCO from MiniCircuits or Zcomm or Macom. They are available from octave-range (varicap tuned) to narrowband (coaxial resonator.) Gain it up with cheap MMICs.

If you want to roll your own, get Randy Rhea's book

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GHz oscillator design is non-obvious.

There are some fast DDS chips around now, too.

--

John Larkin                  Highland Technology Inc 
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com    

Precision electronic instrumentation 
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators 
Custom timing and laser controllers 
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links 
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Reply to
John Larkin

. They

maybe something like this:

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/product.html

-Lasse

Reply to
langwadt

On a sunny day (Sun, 10 Feb 2013 19:05:46 GMT) it happened snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote in :

If you can spend the 10 dollars or so:

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There is a wide choice of frequencies and manufacturers on ebay for that kind of stiff.

Reply to
Jan Panteltje

"John Larkin" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Does that mean GHz amplifier design is obvious?

At most frequencies, amplifiers oscillate and oscillators merely amplify!

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. 
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
Reply to
Tim Williams

Who'd have thought, thirty year ago, that we'd be sitting here, drinking Chateau de Chasselais?

We used to dream of our oscillators amplifying!

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(with apologies to Michael Palin and Eric Idle)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

160 North State Road #203 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA 
+1 845 480 2058 

hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
http://electrooptical.net
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Just to play?

First of all, do you have the equipment to see what you're doing? A scope with 1GHz bandwidth is an obvious starting point; if you hope to see any harmonics, 5G, 10G or more would be handy. Big $$$, but the most familiar relative to time-domain slow stuff.

Specturm analyzer is much cheaper, even out past 10G or so, but doesn't show time domain activity as well. To do that, you need to infer things from sample period (e.g., 60Hz ripple modulating an amplifier, causing amplitude modulation, only noticeable at certain refresh rates), sidebands and so on. Everything's sideways-upside-down in the frequency domain. But it's quite helpful for radio-ey things, where sidebands and harmonics are important and easy to pick out.

You can plod along with, say, an RF voltage probe, but you don't know anything about what's happening, just that it's there or not.

Second, you need parts to do it. MMICs are one thing. BJTs come in that range, as do [Si] JFETs, MOS and the fancier PHEMTs and stuff. Offhand, I don't have any stuff that goes that high, other than parts I've salvaged that I can't find full datasheets for, if anything at all. Some good starting points are BFQxxx's and such, many of which have been mentioned here before; others can volunteer their favorite HF jellybeans.

Finally, you need the understanding. Have you played with radio style circuits before, and got a grasp of impedance matching and transformation and inductors and capacitors and filter design and...? It's easy to see the analogy between an inductor and a thin trace, and a capacitor and a thick trace; it's only another step to build a GHz oscillator with 1/4 wave stubs, or a filter with various segments stacked up. Of course, it's another to design one from first principles and have it work correctly (desired frequency, bandwidth and ripple, etc.), and it would be a whole thing further to actually build one from copper clad with an X-Acto blade! But as with lumped filters, there are design tools for that (ranging from simple calculators to free programs to kilobuck design suites). So if you already have a feeling for this sort of stuff, go for it. If you don't, you might plan some more projects in the VHF range, where inductors and capacitors are still reasonably inductive and capacitive, respectively, keeping in mind your experience is directly applicable.

Some projects are pretty simple, too, even with whatever considerations. A pulsed oscillator and wideband detector can be used for very crude radar, and it doesn't really even matter what frequency the oscillator runs at. If it's making an RF signal, you can be reasonably assured it's doing it at whatever GHz your stubs and stuff are tuned for. Zap it off an antenna and watch the return blip. Stuff like this was done back in the days when scopes were barely pushing 10MHz, and GHz was generated with freaky vacuum tubes, like klystrons, backward-wave oscillators and magnetrons.

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. 
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com 

"mook johnson"  wrote in message  
news:5117d586$0$4051$862e30e2@ngroups.net... 
> Gents, 
> 
> I may have toe venture from my cozy home in the sum 10MHz range to the  
> high frequency RF stuff on the hundreds of MHz to low GHz range. 
> 
> First order of business is a 1GHz signwave generator. 
> 
> What are the common techniques for generating something that high? 
> 
> DDS?  Hartley type oscillator, Crystal with upper harmonic filter to  
> isolate the 1GHz band.   I'm thinking this will be the input to some  
> buffer so the output can hump some power.   ~1W range into 50 ohms. 
> 
> No detailed specs at this point just trying to get a head start on some  
> common techniques before the project kicks off. 
>
Reply to
Tim Williams

Stability requirements ? Free running or locked to some reference ?

Tuning range ?

In the old days for a narrow frequency range a string of 2x and 3x multiplier stages with a resonator between each stage. For a larger tuning range push pull frequency doublers, which did not need much filtering between stages.

These days apparently the simplest would be use a VCO in some PLL construction. Fixed or variable modulus dividers are available to several GHz. Alternatively, use some mixer system to reduce the VCO frequency to some lower frequency and use some low frequency divider or lock the difference frequency to some lower frequency variable signal source.

Of course, one must be careful with topology and loop filter design, in order to keep the phase noise at acceptable levels.

The problem with ordinary DDS design is that you would need to clock it above 3 GHz to generate 1 GHz. This would consume a lot of power and most likely would be quite expensive. There are some alternative ideas of using a VCO at 1 GHz feeding the _clock_ input of the DDS and program the chip to produce 1 MHz and compare this to a 1 MHz crystal and use the feedback to control the VCO so that the DDS produces 1 MHz.

Sounds like some wave analyzers used decades ago. Those used some signal sources that produced a lot of harmonics (such as a step recovery diode), mix it down with a VFO to some low crystal filter frequency (say 10 MHz) and then mix the filtered signal back to original frequency using the same VFO, thus the VFO drift was canceled. By tuning the VFO, you could select which harmonic you needed.

Reply to
upsidedown
50-2000 Mhz is fairly easy with stock VCOs and TI, Fujitsu or AD PLLs.

AD products often come with the VCO on Chip.

Depending on what your doing, the most important beginner's tools for learning basic PLL are probablty:

  1. A decent frequency counter.
  2. RF power meter, Even the low cost ones.
  3. Spec-An.
  4. Oscilloscope of course, for the loop filter.
  5. Older PLL appnotes such as MC145151, MC145170 etc where they give good, simple, examples.

I'm going to disagree with Tim on the scope bandwidth, for many applications 10 or 100 Mhz is fine.

The rationale being the VCO power level at the prescaler is usually a common problem at the design stage. A frequency counter is inexpensive and shows lock and programming errors quickly. The Spec An is there for the harmonics and RF levels.

Learning to make microstrip with free tools like APPCAD, and adding gain with MMICs helps.

I like the TI PLLatinum parts for the fact they often bring the prescaler count out on a pin.

LMX2430 for example.

Motorola's AN535 is widely available on the net.

Just a few ideas,

Steve

Reply to
Owen Roberts

Also, If you want to do the narrow band multiplier route, the modern Ham way is the harmonic generator / hairpin filter route. Often a

74HC04 Hex Inverter is used as a driver, with say 4 of the individual inverters paralled.

Some examples from Paul Wade's web site:

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Steve

Reply to
Owen Roberts

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of stiff.

But you still need a PLL and other circuitry. The ADF4350 just needs a reference clock, a few passive parts and a small controller to set the registers and it produces about any frequency between 135MHz and

4.4GHz. There is an improved version as well which goes as low as (IIRC) 38MHz.
--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply 
indicates you are not using the right tools... 
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to
Nico Coesel

On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Feb 2013 01:54:37 GMT) it happened snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote in :

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of stiff.

Yes, it is a namazing chip, so much integration. But the price, you can make a bid on ebay too:

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Just bid a dollar :-)

It all depends, if you already have an FPGA on board then the PLL thing comes for free (except for a cheap prescaler perhaps). That is how I did it.

Reply to
Jan Panteltje

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of stiff.

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Some people are crazy. At Digikey they cost $12 in single quantities.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply 
indicates you are not using the right tools... 
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to
Nico Coesel

I did get two samples of those. Wonderful part. Very tiny package.

Steve

Reply to
Owen Roberts

s
s

here or not.

Tom, I have three words of advice that may help you....

"ZERO SPAN MODE"

Mark

Reply to
Mark

You have a friend a MiniCircuits, the UHF tech's best friend.

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Reply to
dave

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