Syncronizing 2 UHF antenae for HD TV reception

Jun 01, 2011 30 Replies

Apparently you do not understand how COFDM based Single Frequency Networks (SFN) work. Multiple transmitters quite close to each others are used, each transmitting exactly th same signal at exactly the same frequency with accurate timing. The coverage areas overlap and it possible that a single receiver takes some subcarriers from one transmitter and some from other transmitter(s) if the signal from the nearest station suffers from selective fading on some subcarriers.

From the receiver point of view, having two well separated received antennas and simply combining the signal into a single coaxial cable will look just like receiving from two separate transmitters in an SFN network.

This does not work in a single carrier systems like the ATSC used in the USA, so such combining does not help. Even for that system, a proper diversity receiver would help, if such thing exists in the USA. With proper diversity receivers, the spatial antenna separation should be as large as possible.

There has been discussions in this thread about impedance matching issues when combining two antennas. While it might be possible for a very narrow band system to directly connect the dipole terminals to each other and then to a feedline, but the length of the feedline would have to be a specific fraction of the wavelength to get correct impedance transformation. This approach can not be used with TV due to the huge bandwidth of the UHF TV band. The practical approach is to use a balun at each antenna and use ordinary 75 ohm TV coaxial cables with exactly the same length from the antennas to a passive splitter/combiner and from the common port then use any length of 75 ohm coax to feed the TV. While in theory, stacking two identical antennas would give an additional 3 dB gain, but in practice, due to the variation in radiation pattern and the losses in the combiner, the practically achievable gain increase is 2-2.5 dB due to stacking.

Apparently you do not, since that it not the topic here.

In terrestrial reception, the ground emits noise at about 300 K noise temperature (noise figure 3 dB), thus the receiver noise figure does not have to be that good. Receiver noise figures of 3 dB are not uncommon, thus contributing the same amount of noise as the warm earth.

These days, the main purpose of antenna mounted preamps is to compensate for the feedline (and splitter and connector) losses. Thus the preamp gain should be larger than the feed line losses. By increasing the gain with a further 5-10 dB, the receiver front end noise can be eliminated from the equation.

The gain should not be increased above this, since the generation of spurious signals goes very quickly up, either in the antenna preamp or in the receiver.

I did not find any device directly suitable for UHF TV masthead preamps. Perhaps the wide band 0.5 dB noise figure device would be nice, but it would absolutely require proper high pass (450 MHz) and low pass (850 MHz) filtering at the input, thus, the insertion losses of these filters would have to be added to the system noise figure, but still be well below 3 dB.

OTOH, for terrestrial reception, I do not see much point in trimming off the last decibel. The signal variation due to various kinds of fades can be more than 10 dB.

You'd win! Let me know where to mail the nickel and the five vintage box tops :-)

Thanks!

Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

a rotator

Is it "antennae" or "antennas"? A pet peeve of mine I guess. May just be a US thing.?

My dictionary lists both, although at least in my experience people use "antennas" for the things that send or receive EM radiation and "antennae" for what's found on the top of insects.

Are you in the US? Do you think extra height on the antenna can help? Nothing beats line of sight coverage!

-mpm

You should go away and attempt to plug all of your ofrifii with superglue.

Just get a 2-to-1 splitter/combiner, and use two of the same length pieces of coax. Plug these antenna leads into the combiner inputs and the combiner output to the downfeed.

Good Luck! Rich

Probably not a good move. Firstly, best reception requires freedom from multipath reception (i.e. your best steering might be to null a reflection rather than to peak a signal strength). So, a 'better' antenna is not one with higher signal power, but with a well defined null direction. Secondly, a good four-element Yagi has one dipole and three directors or reflectors; two two-element antennae is not similar to a good four-element one. It's a rather small gain for the cost of multiple antennae and downleads.

There is a fairly good bargraph signal strength indicator in most modern TVs; look at it carefully, 3 dB is a TINY bit of difference.

** Not much of a problem with digital TV signals.
** Ever seen a UHF TV antenna for roof top use ?

Usually have dozens of elements and are very directional.

Off axis, reflected signals are ignored.

... Phil

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