Simple Power Pulse -- HOSP

Not on this side of the pond it isn't. The House aka English Sparrow (Passer domesticus) is considered non-native vermin, an invasive species which has caused serious declines in several species of native birds and is definitely not protected. What I propose is merely a very humane method of shortening their miserable lives. The same method is applied to humans over here and not considered "cruel" or "unusual.".

See:

If they can identify the cause it might be of great interest over here. Regards,

Dave

Not good since it might get into the food chain.

The native species favor an environment without people. The HOSP thrive only where there are people. Maybe a bio-terrorist will someday set things right again but in the meanwhile I'm not going to allow the other species to be driven out. Should be far more humane than shooting, trapping or poisoning. Neutering them is not an option. Maybe you are also a vegetarian so as to not cause any animal suffering?

Please feel free to explain a 'humane" method then.

AN EVENING (WASTED) WITH TOM LEHRER Poisoning Pigeons in the Park

Spring is here, a-suh-puh-ring is here. Life is skittles and life is beer. I think the loveliest time of the year is the spring. I do, don't you? 'Course you do. But there's one thing that makes spring complete for me, And makes every Sunday a treat for me.

All the world seems in tune On a spring afternoon, When we're poisoning pigeons in the park. Every Sunday you'll see My sweetheart and me, As we poison the pigeons in the park.

When they see us coming, the birdies all try an' hide, But they still go for peanuts when coated with cyanide. The sun's shining bright, Everything seems all right, When we're poisoning pigeons in the park.

We've gained notoriety, And caused much anxiety In the Audubon Society With our games. They call it impiety And lack of propriety, And quite a variety Of unpleasant names. But it's not against any religion To want to dispose of a pigeon.

So if Sunday you're free, Why don't you come with me, And we'll poison the pigeons in the park. And maybe we'll do In a squirrel* or two, While we're poisoning pigeons in the park.

We'll murder them all amid laughter and merriment, Except for the few we take home to experiment. My pulse will be quickenin' With each drop of strych'nine We feed to a pigeon. (It just takes a smidgin!) To poison a pigeon in the park.

Notes * In 1998, Lehrer performed this song as part of a one-off show devoted to Sir Cameron Mackintosh, and substituted "sparrow" for "squirrel"

AN EVENING (WASTED) WITH TOM LEHRER Poisoning Pigeons in the Park

• In 1998, Lehrer performed this song as part of a one-off show devoted to Sir Cameron Mackintosh, and substituted "sparrow" for "squirrel"

Spring is here, a-suh-puh-ring is here. Life is skittles and life is beer. I think the loveliest time of the year is the spring. I do, don't you? 'Course you do. But there's one thing that makes spring complete for me, And makes every Sunday a treat for me.

All the world seems in tune On a spring afternoon, When we're poisoning pigeons in the park. Every Sunday you'll see My sweetheart and me, As we poison the pigeons in the park.

When they see us coming, the birdies all try an' hide, But they still go for peanuts when coated with cyanide. The sun's shining bright, Everything seems all right, When we're poisoning pigeons in the park.

We've gained notoriety, And caused much anxiety In the Audubon Society With our games. They call it impiety And lack of propriety, And quite a variety Of unpleasant names. But it's not against any religion To want to dispose of a pigeon.

So if Sunday you're free, Why don't you come with me, And we'll poison the pigeons in the park. And maybe we'll do In a squirrel* or two, While we're poisoning pigeons in the park.

We'll murder them all amid laughter and merriment, Except for the few we take home to experiment. My pulse will be quickenin' With each drop of strych'nine We feed to a pigeon. (It just takes a smidgin!) To poison a pigeon in the park.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Dave wrote (in ) about 'Simple Power Pulse -- HOSP', on Wed, 8 Dec 2004:

I hope this is a troll. What you are carefully implying is absolutely illegal and if you can be traced you will be prosecuted for animal cruelty.

In fact, the RSPB is concerned about the dramatic decrease in house- sparrow populations and indeed here they have very noticeably declined, possibly due to the rise in magpie population; the magpies relish a sparrow chick for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

So I can eat meat and still be a saint as long as the butcher does the killing?

Yes but this is apples and oranges. The natural predator-prey relationships that exist between native species will oscillate around an equilibrium. The unnatural relationship between invasive species and native species leads to the extinction of the native species. Your domestic ducks and geese are not going to become extinct. The English Sparrow will kill the Bluebird chicks. The Bluebird will never kill the English Sparrow chicks. The English Sparrow breeds much faster. There is no equilibrium.

....

I'm not quite sure the buddhists (excuse my spelling, you know who I mean) would agree...

;-)

"Dave" skrev i en meddelelse news: snipped-for-privacy@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Apart form that, History shows that all these God-Games tend to backfire; an ecosystem has it's own agenda and if you try to push it, it will find a different way. Maybe a more unpleasant one even. If you want the native species back, you have to re-create conditions favoured by native species - the house sparrow is there now because conditions are now more favorable to

Sure - just like cooking a lobster, except not so repeatable! There must be some satisfying vids/pictures on

It may not be protected but I think it's likely that there are cruelty laws that apply even to vermin.

It is by me and many, many others.

Actually, Tom Lehrer wrote it.

I guess I'm showing my age. I'd assumed that no engineer would not have heard of Tom Lehrer. He's a mathematician who attained his PhD at Harvard, and incidentally also a satirist who had something of an on-again-off-again musical career in the '50s and '60s. As far as I know, he's still teaching math at UC Santa Cruz. He'd be in his mid-seventies now.

Here are some links. Personally, I always thought he was the funniest guy in the known universe (at least until I started reading newsgroups ;-). I've got his albums, and listen to them a couple of times a year.

By the way, I figured the OP was tongue-in-cheek, so I responded in similar fashion. No offense meant, either to you or to sparrows.

Chris

Let loose of the idea of killing through an attitude change, I suppose.

I have a small farm with perhaps some 40 free-ranging birds -- chickens, quail, pheasants, guineas, ducks, and geese. We also have at least one pack of coyotes nearby and a group of hawks that live in some trees on my property. Both present a problem to me, but killing either wasn't acceptable.

The coyotes would make a mad rush through the birds and just focus on the one or two that didn't make it to safety in the flurry. The solution to this was to break up the land with strategically placed barriers so that by the time they navigated them the birds were safe. The coyotes don't bother me anymore, though I still hear them and know they are around.

The hawks required several factors. The guineas play an important role, as do the banties -- both are sharp-eyed and set off the warnings early. Also, we noticed that the Jays (both Stellar's and scrub) really don't like the hawks (because the hawks grab them and eat them, I suppose) and will attack the hawks, chasing them in groups. The hawks hate it. And the Jays LOVE peanuts in the shell. So we spread out peanuts every so often to make sure that the Jays hang around our homesite. The hawks don't even bother, anymore. I just watch them as they fly overhead and go to other places to hunt and then return.

I'm ever aware of the situation and know that it can change, but it's a price I'm willing to pay. Shooting the hawks and coyotes (or poisoning them) would have been a possibility, I suppose, and it might permanently solve their threat. But there is a balance in life and it's likely that there are other animals that would move in, such as raccoons (predator) or rabbits (going after our vegetables) and perhaps mice and rats, which themselves would just present yet another set of issues. And genocide to all of them just to keep life in the world around me at bay would just mean a sterile environment, absent of life.

Being a human being with our own interests shouldn't have to become a deadly presence in the lives of other animals.

Jon

Understood. I cannot judge your situation, though I'm generally loathe to apply lethal means. I usually take my temptations to resort to that as being my own laziness in thinking about the problem. That doesn't mean there won't be such situations where it is unavoidable, it's just that it would be my absolute last resort. My story was only a suggestion to think more broadly about your own circumstances, which I cannot possibly do for you, and not a specific criticism.

We have invasive species here, too. Possum, for example, brought into the area in 1940's, and basically lots of different 'pets' that have become wild and managed to survive. Over time, they tend to form an equilibrium with other wildlife, if they don't totally tip the scales and wipe out local populations. However, all of the situations I know of here where the local wildlife has been killed off or nearly so are due to human impacts. I can't think of a single one just now that was due to a species brought in. So when I inject myself into that equilibrium equation, I try hard not to tip things any further one way or another. My species is the larger threat to just about any other species.

Jon

That's because the invader has a homeland, and it isn't considered an invader if it does not seriously affect native species.

See:

Established fact, but usually man is the invading species.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Dave wrote (in ) about 'Simple Power Pulse -- HOSP', on Wed, 8 Dec 2004:

Well, not necessarily. If it results in the invader going extinct, no- one hears about it.

Really? They don't kill other birds in UK.

Typical xenophobic allegations.

In your mind.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jonathan Kirwan wrote (in ) about 'Simple Power Pulse -- HOSP', on Thu, 9 Dec 2004:

The classic case here is the American grey squirrel, which has displaced the native red squirrel in almost all locations in England and Wales.

Indeed. We can, it appears, drive everything except viruses into extinction.