silly circuit

Apr 02, 2026 Last reply: 3 months ago 62 Replies

"Bill Sloman" snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in message news:10qsnim$15pr5$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me...

Ok please make an equivalent of this but to your design standards and low cost. Note that I'm not asking for criticism of this circuit. There are many reasons why reality may not be the same as its simulation but I had fun doing it. If it doesn't give a constant current of 500mA, open it in Notepad++ Under Encoding, convert to ANSI and save it.

Version 4.1 SHEET 1 2820 680 WIRE 976 -128 272 -128 WIRE 1072 -128 1040 -128 WIRE 16 -48 -16 -48 WIRE 96 -48 16 -48 WIRE 240 -48 96 -48 WIRE 336 -48 240 -48 WIRE 448 -48 336 -48 WIRE 464 -48 448 -48 WIRE 528 -48 464 -48 WIRE 608 -48 528 -48 WIRE 672 -48 608 -48 WIRE 784 -48 768 -48 WIRE 816 -48 784 -48 WIRE 864 -48 816 -48 WIRE 992 -48 944 -48 WIRE 1024 -48 992 -48 WIRE 1072 -48 1072 -128 WIRE 1072 -48 1024 -48 WIRE 1264 -48 1072 -48 WIRE 1360 -48 1264 -48 WIRE 240 -16 240 -48 WIRE 336 -16 336 -48 WIRE 1264 0 1264 -48 WIRE 1360 0 1360 -48 WIRE -16 32 -16 -48 WIRE 608 32 608 -48 WIRE 1168 32 608 32 WIRE 448 64 448 -48 WIRE 464 64 464 -48 WIRE 96 80 96 -48 WIRE 240 80 240 64 WIRE 272 80 272 -128 WIRE 272 80 240 80 WIRE 336 80 336 64 WIRE 384 80 336 80 WIRE 416 80 384 80 WIRE 816 80 816 -48 WIRE 992 80 992 -48 WIRE 1168 80 1168 32 WIRE 336 96 336 80 WIRE 336 96 304 96 WIRE 656 96 480 96 WIRE 688 96 688 0 WIRE 688 96 656 96 WIRE 1232 96 1200 96 WIRE 1264 96 1264 64 WIRE 1264 96 1232 96 WIRE 240 112 240 80 WIRE 384 112 240 112 WIRE 416 112 384 112 WIRE 528 112 528 -48 WIRE 608 112 608 32 WIRE 1104 112 1088 112 WIRE 1136 112 1104 112 WIRE 240 128 240 112 WIRE 336 128 336 96 WIRE 1312 128 1200 128 WIRE 1360 128 1360 80 WIRE 1360 128 1312 128 WIRE 1360 160 1360 128 WIRE -16 176 -16 112 WIRE 240 240 240 208 WIRE 336 240 336 208 WIRE 336 240 240 240 WIRE 384 240 336 240 WIRE 432 240 432 128 WIRE 432 240 384 240 WIRE 448 240 448 128 WIRE 448 240 432 240 WIRE 464 240 464 128 WIRE 464 240 448 240 WIRE 528 240 528 176 WIRE 528 240 464 240 WIRE 544 240 528 240 WIRE 608 240 608 176 WIRE 608 240 544 240 WIRE 1360 240 1360 224 WIRE 1424 240 1360 240 WIRE 1536 240 1424 240 WIRE 1696 240 1600 240 WIRE 1872 240 1760 240 WIRE 544 272 544 240 WIRE 1264 272 1264 96 WIRE 1360 272 1360 240 WIRE -16 368 -16 256 WIRE 96 368 96 144 WIRE 96 368 -16 368 WIRE 544 368 544 352 WIRE 544 368 96 368 WIRE 816 368 816 144 WIRE 816 368 544 368 WIRE 992 368 992 144 WIRE 992 368 816 368 WIRE 1168 368 1168 144 WIRE 1168 368 992 368 WIRE 1264 368 1264 352 WIRE 1264 368 1168 368 WIRE 1360 368 1360 336 WIRE 1360 368 1264 368 WIRE 1872 368 1872 240 WIRE 1872 368 1360 368 WIRE -16 384 -16 368 WIRE 304 448 304 96 WIRE 992 448 304 448 WIRE 1088 448 1088 112 WIRE 1088 448 1072 448 FLAG -16 384 0 FLAG 16 -48 in FLAG 784 -48 sw FLAG 1024 -48 out FLAG 1312 128 isense FLAG 1232 96 iref FLAG 1104 112 ifb FLAG 384 80 cmp- FLAG 384 112 cmp+ FLAG 656 96 gate FLAG 384 240 cmpv- FLAG 1424 240 led SYMBOL Comparators\\LT1719 448 32 R0 WINDOW 0 27 27 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -92 6 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName U1 SYMBOL res 320 112 R0 WINDOW 0 41 34 Left 2 WINDOW 3 35 64 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R4 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1 SYMBOL ind 960 -64 R90 WINDOW 0 63 51 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 -27 53 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName L1 SYMATTR Value 0.068m SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.85 Rser=0.21 Rpar=0 Cpar=0 SYMBOL res 1376 -16 M0 WINDOW 0 -37 34 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -57 63 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R8 SYMATTR Value 0.68 SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1 SYMBOL res 224 -32 R0 WINDOW 0 -35 19 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -49 48 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1 SYMBOL schottky 832 144 R180 WINDOW 0 -42 30 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -119 -3 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName D2 SYMATTR Value MBRS130L SYMATTR Description Diode SYMATTR Type diode SYMBOL pmos 768 0 M270 WINDOW 0 10 129 VLeft 2 WINDOW 3 -10 67 VLeft 2 SYMATTR InstName M1 SYMATTR Value AO6407 SYMBOL voltage -16 160 R0 WINDOW 0 -75 16 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -71 54 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 -185 81 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V3 SYMATTR Value 12 SYMBOL res -32 16 R0 WINDOW 0 -39 29 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -63 65 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R9 SYMATTR Value 0.001 SYMBOL zener 544 176 R180 WINDOW 0 37 29 Left 2 WINDOW 3 78 -5 Right 2 SYMATTR InstName D1 SYMATTR Value BZX84C6V2L SYMBOL res 320 -32 R0 WINDOW 0 40 7 Left 2 WINDOW 3 37 33 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1 SYMBOL res 528 368 M180 WINDOW 0 39 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 38 42 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R5 SYMATTR Value 220 SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.25 SYMBOL cap 592 176 M180 WINDOW 0 29 52 Left 2 WINDOW 3 30 13 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C3 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.0337 Lser=180p mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="885012104009 WCAP-CSGP 0201" type="X5R" SYMBOL polcap 976 80 R0 WINDOW 3 -11 59 Left 2 WINDOW 0 27 9 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 100000n SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Description Capacitor SYMATTR Type cap SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0 mfg="AVX" pn="TAJD107M006" type="Tantalum" SYMBOL res 224 112 R0 WINDOW 0 -40 33 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -52 57 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R2 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1 SYMBOL polcap 80 80 R0 WINDOW 3 -27 60 Left 2 WINDOW 0 -39 4 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 100000n SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Description Capacitor SYMATTR Type cap SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0 mfg="AVX" pn="TAJD107M006" type="Tantalum" SYMBOL LED 1536 256 R270 WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName LED1 SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01 SYMBOL res 976 432 M90 WINDOW 0 -2 59 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 35 64 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R6 SYMATTR Value 22K SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1 SYMBOL cap 976 -144 M90 WINDOW 0 -3 31 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 36 35 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C5 SYMATTR Value 10n SYMATTR SpiceLine V=16 Irms=0 Rser=0.0747 Lser=525p mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="885012210001 WCAP-CSGP 1812" type="X7R" SYMBOL OpAmps\\OP07 1168 48 M0 WINDOW 0 12 22 Left 2 WINDOW 3 9 103 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName U2 SYMBOL res 1248 368 M180 WINDOW 0 -40 81 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -51 46 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R7 SYMATTR Value 470 SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1 SYMBOL schottky 1280 0 M0 WINDOW 0 43 24 Left 2 WINDOW 3 40 -8 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName D3 SYMATTR Value BAT54AHY SYMATTR Description Diode SYMATTR Type diode SYMBOL FerriteBead 1360 192 R0 SYMATTR InstName L2 SYMATTR Value 6µ SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3 Rser=0.0102 Rpar=1220 Cpar=1.9p SYMBOL cap 1344 272 R0 SYMATTR InstName C4 SYMATTR Value 1n SYMATTR SpiceLine V=10 Irms=0 Rser=0.1909 Lser=177p mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="885012205006 WCAP-CSGP 0402" type="X7R" SYMBOL LED 1696 256 R270 WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName LED2 SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01 TEXT -24 440 Left 2 !.tran 0 0.001 0 1u startup TEXT -24 480 Left 2 !.options plotwinsize=0

Something like that. I was thinking of using one of the adorable little TI synchronous buck switchers, like TPS562208. Total parts count would be 5 or 6, for about 35 cents, plus the PCB.

And it would always start up.

Let's see Bill's circuit next.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

You needed find somebody silly enough to take this nonsense seriously. Edward Rawde is apparently willing to play with you. I'm happy to leave you in his capable hands.

Please don't think that I am mocking you for being unable to design simple circuits. That would be unkind.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

I can't see why you bothered to post the EDN circuit in the first place. It's obvious how it works. Without a specific load there's not a lot of point in discussing it and plausible alternatives.

You don't seem to have enough sense to realise this. I suppose I could mock you about that, but you do a pretty good job of sending yourself up all on your own.

I can imagine both linear and switcher versions that cost well under $1, PCB included.

Give it a shot.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

What's hard to understand about two or more LXZ1-PB01 LEDs?

12V isn't hard to find.

Given known LEDs and a known supply voltage, the obvious current limiter is a resistor.

Not as interesting to design.

A switcher would improve efficiency, so might be worth doing.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

To light LEDs you can probably do without ICs or even capacitors, here is an almost-two-terminal very cheap and dirty switcher idea ...

formatting link

piglet

The specification is as follows. Drive 500 mA +/- 50mA constant current though a string of 1,2,3 or 4 LXZ1-PB01 LEDs Cathode connection to LEDs should be grounded. Anode connection should be filtered as necessary so as to comply with CISPR 22 Class B. Input 12 - 15 V DC. High efficiency and low cost is required, depending on what can be achieved, so there is currently no exact target for efficiency or cost.

Nobody who actually wanted to use the circuit would talk about "two or more LXZ1-PB01 LEDs". John Larkin wants to see it as some kind of teaching exercise, not realising that he'd failed the course when he asked how it would start up. Instructing people who don't know how to learn - and don't seem to want to - is a pointless exercise.

Why not? But at 500 mA and 3 volts or so per LED, they will be blinding and need some serious heat sinking.

How would it start up?

I have a policy against designing things that have failure states, even when the creators of those states claim that they will never be entered.

Because sometimes they do.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

Diodes tend to fail short. I have no information on the extent to which these LEDs fail short but do you want the others to die quicker or continue working normally?

Because if you are going to build the circuit you have to make up your mind before you build it.

Think about it. Think - for instance - about transistor leakage currents, which flow whenever you put a voltage across and bipolar transistor junction.

Even when the "failure state" is entirely imaginary?

Because you left out a connection?

The circuit is a constant current driver. If enough LEDS fail short you might end up dissipating enough power in the driver to blow it up too, but until that happened the surviving LEDs will see exactly the same current as they did before the other LEDs failed.

Thank you for your input, I will modify the specification as follows:

Drive 500 mA +/- 50mA constant current though a string of 1,2,3 or 4 LXZ1-PB01 LEDs In the case of 0 LEDs (short circuit) no damage should occur and the current may be 500mA or lower. Cathode connection to LEDs should be grounded. Anode connection should be filtered as necessary so as to comply with CISPR 22 Class B. Input 12 - 15 V DC. High efficiency and low cost is required, depending on what can be achieved, so there is currently no exact target for efficiency or cost.

Let me know when you have met this specification. Your design need not, of course, be anything like the design I posted.

YOU think about it. Quantitatively.

I've measured collector leakage currents as low as 10 fA in cheap transistors, 10 fA being my resolution limit. I could measure much less, with a bit of effort.

For that circuit to start up, the current gain around the loop would have to be above one for, likely, sub pA leakages, and the transistors would need >1 beta at the pA or fA currents.

Even a dirty PCB could kill beta enough to prevent startup.

Q1 and Q4 don't help a bit.

Not starting up would not be an imaginary failure.

But a state-free design will always have few hangup states.

Because something unexpected happens. In a current case, a new digital delay generator design, interesting things can happen if it's being triggered with one set of delays and widths, and the user reprograms them on-the-fly.

What's a boy to do?

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

The EDN circuit specified BC557B and BC550B transistors

formatting link
an maximum continous current of 100mA, peak 200m

formatting link
an maximum current of 100mA.

They won't meet your specification.

Since the specification is nonsense in the context of this thread, I'm obviously not going to take it seriously.

If you can't get the current levels right there's not a lot of point in looking at your "design'. I haven't done so because I don't take you all that seriously.

500mA is lot to get from 100mA parts like the BC550 and BC557.

You first.

Your capacity to make bad measurements is well known.

Which they've got.

It never seems to.

If it happened.

Really? Bad designers can make remarkably silly mistakes, but my thirty years in industry did suggest that those errors usually got caught before the design made it to production. There was one project where experienced engineers had to spend six months cleaning up after less experienced engineers, but that didn't happen again.

Learn to be a better designer? When you couldn't recognise a classic two transistor emitter-coupled monostable as a viable circuit you did make it plain that you still have quite a lot to learn.

In other words you're not able to meet my specification which clearly requires more current than the EDN circuit.

Join the Discussion

Have something to add? Share your thoughts — no account required.

Didn't find your answer?

Ask the community — no account required