Hmmm, the brain is capable of synthesising all sorts of things, so I suppose this is possible. Intuitively though, I doubt it.
We'll have to leave the experimentation to you: you're the one with the actual setup of nuts!
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| How often would random chance produce a pattern which our brains would | interpret as moving? And would CCW appear as often as CW?
Extremely often, because the pattern is changing. By adding order, even a little, movement is the natural interpretation. Some see images in a flickering fire, some see canals and faces on Mars, some see Virgin Marys in condensation on windows and some see Jesuses in clouds. We all recognise familiar faces yet I had to look twice to be sure it was my daughter in the coffin, her smile had gone. We are programmed to recognise patterns and movement, it is inherent in all of us.
I have seen a similar effect and I think I know a different cause. Driving down the freeway in the evening, I have noticed the backwards rotation on car hubcaps. Impossible you saw, yet I have seen it.
I have not seen this effect in the daytime, so I believe this is due to the light source. As the car passes under a street lamp the angle of source light changes to provide the effect. I felt very strange the first time I saw this. But it happened enough that I am sure of the cause. So no strobe and not special torquing involved.
Ed
I just slapped together an example of my first idea: 6deg sequential nut twists. It's *very* impressive, with small bright blotches surrounded by darkness, NOT OBVIOUSLY FLASHING, and turning very obviously backwards. The earlier one flickers badly, since it flashes five times per rev, while this latest one flashes ten. At typical RPMs, the new one is flickering at 30Hz, which looks like continuous light. The old one flashes at 15Hz, which is very distracting, and the drifting motion is buried within the obvious flashing.
But the old one greatly resembles the examples of the truck-wheel phenomenon I've seen in the wild. The pattern is sort of subtle, it requires correct viewing angle, and is easily overlooked. The new one is so bright and obvious that it might hypnotize gawkers into following the truck or drifting into the guard rail.
The new one also requires no distinct light source. When not reflecting overhead lights, the whirling nuts are still full of slowly drifting details, as if a blurry version of the surrounding scenery was mapped onto a backwards-rotating cylinder.
NEW: my original "6-degree twist" idea for lug-nuts phi-motion phenom
Earlier "parallel facet" version
Also:
Forget the "Hutchison effect" antigrav video. Here's the Bill Beaty-chison effect video!
((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//amasci.com
But we're talking about an illusory object which seemingly rotates... not just a vague perception of movement.
If you were right, then most truck wheels would display this illusory rotating object. But if we go out and start watching truck wheels on the highway, we see lots of randomly flickering patterns, plus rarely a clear illusion of a rotating object. The two effects look quite different.
I did see a good random one today. Chrome lug nuts in the sun, with brilliant flashing. But the pattern just resembled a bunch of flash bulbs going off at random times and positions, with no illusory "rotating solid object" buried in the flashes.
((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//amasci.com/
LOL! Very good! Except for the last few frames, of course! :-)
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
In message , dated Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Bill Beaty writes
What is a BIG difference between the sun and a discharge lamp?
-- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
You can't unplug the sun.
-- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I\'ve got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida
Sun -> Photon -> AC Bar magnet -> DC no_one -> d*****ad
| >> In message , | >> dated Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Bill Beaty writes | >>
| >> >I did see a good random one today. Chrome lug nuts in the sun, with | >> >brilliant flashing. But the pattern just resembled a bunch of flash | >> >bulbs going off at random times and positions, with no illusory | >> >"rotating solid object" buried in the flashes. | >>
| >> What is a BIG difference between the sun and a discharge lamp? | >
| >
| > You can't unplug the sun. | >
| >
| > -- | > Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to | > prove it. | > Member of DAV #85. | >
| > Michael A. Terrell | > Central Florida | |
i guess it takes one to know one. That being said I was trying to say that the light from some lamps actually has a varying amplitude component (flicker in a flourescent) while the sun would provide a constant amplitude. I have seen flourescent lights in a machine shop make a spinning pulley look stopped or slow due to the "strobing" effect of the 60 cycle flicker.
In message , dated Fri, 25 Aug 2006, no_one writes
They're called that because of the flour coating the inside of the tube?
Precisely.
-- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
I am sure Mr Beatty is aware of that. The title of this thread includes the words "No strobe needed".
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
What does that have to do with Direct and Alternating Current? A DC photon is called a bar magnet and a Direct Current in a flourescent tube would do what? Androcles
| >
| >
| > | >> In message , | > | >> dated Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Bill Beaty writes | > | >>
| > | >> >I did see a good random one today. Chrome lug nuts in the sun, with | > | >> >brilliant flashing. But the pattern just resembled a bunch of flash | > | >> >bulbs going off at random times and positions, with no illusory | > | >> >"rotating solid object" buried in the flashes. | > | >>
| > | >> What is a BIG difference between the sun and a discharge lamp? | > | >
| > | >
| > | > You can't unplug the sun. | > | >
| > | >
| > | > -- | > | > Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to | > | > prove it. | > | > Member of DAV #85. | > | >
| > | > Michael A. Terrell | > | > Central Florida | > | | > | | >
| >
| |
But the video clips show a fluorescent lamp being used.
-- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
| >>That being said I was trying to say that | >>the light from some lamps actually has a varying amplitude component | >>(flicker in a flourescent) while the sun would provide a constant amplitude. | >>I have seen flourescent lights in a machine shop make a spinning pulley look | >>stopped or slow due to the "strobing" effect of the 60 cycle flicker. | >
| >I am sure Mr Beatty is aware of that. The title of this thread includes | >the words "No strobe needed".
| But the video clips show a fluorescent lamp being used.
Light reflected from a rotating reflector in a particular direction is light turned on and then off again in that direction, and that is a "strobe".
Androcles
Thanks for sharing this interesting observation. I've cross-posted your OP to sci.optics.
Note to sci.optics readers: you can read many follow-up posts at sci.electronics.design or sci.physics.
Regards,
Mark
This thread isn't about 120Hz strobe effect. That's well known.
Neither is it about the apparent rotating patterns seen in wire wheels as streetlights flow past, or as you pass the wire-wheeled car.
Check out the top post: this is about an instance of the "reverse wagon wheel effect" which is observed in broad daylight, with no changes in viewing angle or illumination angle. I'd heard about this effect several times, but I didn't believe it until I saw it myself.
And when I finally saw it on the highway, I could see clearly that it was caused by orientation of the lug nut facets, much like a Praxinoscope animation. So I went home and started drawing diagrams to try to find a pattern of lug nut orientation which could produce a "backwards drifting wagonwheel" effect. See the youtube videos of my efforts:
Apparent reverse motion in truck wheel lug nuts
Apparent reverse motion: original 6deg pattern
((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//amasci.com
Um. I think you need to read the top post.
60Hz streetlights don't exist in broad daylight. (And besides, they actually flash at 120Hz.)Go see the videos of the lug-nuts effect in action:
((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//amasci.com
Are you serious?!!! These are VIDEOS. They are HORRENDOUSLY CHOPPED. Even if I took the apparatus out into the sun, the video frame rate causes major aliasing. There is no way to accurately record these images other than using some research instrument with immense frame rate.
Therefore, if you want to see the effect, you'll have to get a stove bolt, a dead CD, some double-sided tape, and ten half-inch lug nuts. Chuck it in a drill, and take it out into the sun.
On the other hand, the drifting-pattern effects you see in the videos is not from strobe beats, and the aliasing artifacts are insignificant: you'll see the same effect with your own eyes under sunlight.
But this is the internet, eh? I could be lying about every aspect of this stuff. So if your're interested in the effect, you'll just have to build one yourself.
((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//amasci.com
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