No strobe needed for "Wagon Wheel" Reverse Rotation effect

Nice try. That's a really cool shed/workshop by the way!

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Actually it was at work, after hours: Bagley Hall chemistry bldg, the electronics department (with a couple of repair jobs cluttering up the bench.)

So... if people want to unquestionably see the effect, they can`t watch videos, but instead have to build their own ten-nuts wheel device. Or just keep watching truck tires on the highway in daylight (with no

120hz streetlights, etc.)

Now I need to make versions with random nut positions, with zero drift, and with forwards drift.

(((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty

snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@amasci.com UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74

206-543-6195 Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700

I'd almost be willing to bet that the odds are better than that. Assume that the machine that presses the studs into the rimis auutomatically fed from the machine that makes the stude. Each stud comes off the stud- making machine identical to the other studs, _even oriented the same way_, i.e., the start/stop point of the threads will be on the same place on each stud in the trough. The stud-puncher receives a rim, which is locked down to a spindle. The stud-puncher picks the first stud up out of the trough, and presses it into the rim. The rim is indexed 36 degrees, the next stud is pressed, and so on. The start/stop of the threads is radially symmetrical. So, if the guy who installs the wheel uses proper torque values, the nuts should stop with radial symmetry. ;-)

Cheers! Rich

Radial symmetry is no good though, for the purposes of this particular strobe effect.

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What a shame. I dream of having a shed or garage like that!

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Right.

If the nuts are installed with an air wrench, I don't have any good ideas on how they could create a drifting light pattern.

But if they're installed with a tire iron, then the person tightening the nuts simply has to rotate the handles of the tire iron to nearly the same angle each time (an angle relative to ground and to the vehicle.)

Also note that my original idea with 6deg increments gives a poor light pattern: a huge wide patch of light whose direction of rotation might be difficult to see. If instead the nuts are all adjusted parallel to ground, then the pattern of light is a row of bright dots with the same spacing as the physical nut spacing.

((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//amasci.com/

I guess we mustn't rule out the possibility that it is done on purpose... anyone with enough pride in their vehicle to have chromed wheel nuts presumably also has enough interest in the little details to be able to set up such an effect.

Over on this --------> side of the Altantic, we don't see many trucks all chromed up and beautiful; the big units on our roads are much dirtier and more prosaic, and we call them "lorries" too. :-)

I applaud mightily the way you have actually done the experiments. True science in action. As a child I was always fascinated by the "buggy effect" on The Lone Ranger, where the buggy wheels seem to be going backwards at certain speeds.

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Haven't you ever seen a chrome hubcap with fake lugnuts?

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Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Well, the first example I saw on the highway didn't have chrome lugs. They looked pretty dark, and I assumed that there still must be some specular reflection in there somewhere. Also I assumed that chrome lugs would give a stronger effect. But as long as the visible details of the lugs will periodically change brightness as the angles vary, the "strobe motion" pattern should appear.

I wouldn't be totally suprised all this still works with totally rusted lugs. The view of the wheel (and of lug shadows) as seen through the slots between the lugs is also changing as they rotate. The drifting image may essentially be a Zoetrope based on slit-scanning, versus a Praxinoscope with rotating mirrors.

I'll have to paint the lugs using flat-black spray paint and see if the effect is still there.

Also try:

| > On 20 Aug 2006 17:05:47 -0700, "Bill Beaty" wrote: | >

| > >

| > >Ben Newsam wrote: | > >

| > >> Radial symmetry is no good though, for the purposes of this particular | > >> strobe effect. | > >

| > >Right. | > >

| > >If the nuts are installed with an air wrench, I don't have any good | > >ideas on how they could create a drifting light pattern. | > >

| > >But if they're installed with a tire iron, then the person tightening | > >the nuts simply has to rotate the handles of the tire iron to nearly | > >the same angle each time (an angle relative to ground and to the | > >vehicle.) | >

| > I guess we mustn't rule out the possibility that it is done on | > purpose... anyone with enough pride in their vehicle to have chromed | > wheel nuts presumably also has enough interest in the little details | > to be able to set up such an effect. | >

| > Over on this --------> side of the Altantic, we don't see many trucks | > all chromed up and beautiful; the big units on our roads are much | > dirtier and more prosaic, and we call them "lorries" too. :-)

Lucky to get sunlight...

| >

| > >Also note that my original idea with 6deg increments gives a poor light | > >pattern: a huge wide patch of light whose direction of rotation might | > >be difficult to see. If instead the nuts are all adjusted parallel to | > >ground, then the pattern of light is a row of bright dots with the same | > >spacing as the physical nut spacing. | >

| > I applaud mightily the way you have actually done the experiments. | > True science in action. As a child I was always fascinated by the | > "buggy effect" on The Lone Ranger, where the buggy wheels seem to be | > going backwards at certain speeds. | >

| > -- | > Posted via a free Usenet account from

| | | Haven't you ever seen a chrome hubcap with fake lugnuts?

LOL! Hubcaps.. plastic, going out of fashion fast. However,

Androcles

Nope, what's actually happened is that you've discovered proof that you are a self-aware humanoid robot. With frame-sampled vision.

Not partivularly. Like I said, over here, people use lorries to shift stuff about, they mostly don't pretty them up. We're not talking about fake hubcaps either, I think. Unless the effect we are discussing works with prefabricated plastic hubcaps, of course. Maybe someone can confirm that?

What I said was:

We see some, but very, very few.

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No mechanic puts on lug nuts with a lug wrench. It's too slow and he can't get enough units through in his shift. Watch someone in a garage sometime.

He uses an air wrench. And when you put the nut in the socket, you can't see the sides and you can't tell which way the nut is facing.

The tool stops on its own when the nut is tight. No way you're going back to it after you've pulled the wrench off. You're out of time and the boss is glaring.

So the chances of this being deliberate are very, very small.

Surely, you mean that the chances of it being deliberate are very, very great? If working normally produces random results, then the special alignment would *have* to be deliberate. Not by the people in the wheel bay though.

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Obviously. If air wrenches could produce this organized pattern, most trucks on the highway would exhibit the "reverse drift" lug nut phenomenon.

Since it seems to be fairly rare, clearly the pattern must be produced by a rare situation. Such as wise-ass mechanics who knew about the weird effect, and were doing it on purpose just for the hell of it. As I said in my original post.

But why would the trick be common enough that anyone would notice it? Maybe one of them got chewed out by the boss, and now it's a boss/worker power game about whether they can get away with making the drift pattern. To cause enough patterns to be noticed, the game would have to spread to other garages of course. Such things do happen, although it's not common. Or it might just be indie truckers who service their own vehicles and use tire irons (they probably don't all own air tools!) Until someone comes up with a simpler explanation, the bizarre-yet-workable explanations remain high on the list. AHA! What if a trucker has to replace a flat?!! Lol!

Maybe the pattern is due to an unthinking mechanism? Where the number of flat tires and the number of "drift patterns" have a 1:1 relationship? Well we'll just see about that! If I send mail to the Car Talk guys about this, I bet I can seriously distort the statistics by polluting the study with a large number of intelligent agents!

:)

Apparent reverse motion in truck wheel lug nuts

((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//amasci.com

My garage has looked like that, but I recently moved, and it currently looks like stacks of boxes and shelves. Setting it all up again is a slow job, so I've been playing late at night in the shop at work.

Hey, that's one good use for youTube: we can start giving guided video tours of our collections of cool stuff in our workshops. Note that old Sony digital cameras are cheap, and they produce mpeg videos directly. 100megs gives one hour and 12 mins at low res 160pixel video (or 4min, 33 sec at 640pixel at 10Hz, or 1min 16sec at 640pixel, fast.) Get a 1GB flash card for ten times the length.

"If a cluttered desk signs a cluttered mind, of what then is an empty desk a sign?" - A. Einstein

((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/

On an 18-wheel vehicle?

Maybe they exist, but I haven't seen them. I haven't seen chrome lugs that give the drift pattern either. But I haven't been looking for it until now.

((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//amasci.com

Cool. Whats it look like with a bright flashlight?

Bill Beaty wrote:

Here at work, Roy O. is not convinced, and instead thinks that randomized nuts would produce the effect just by chance, and it would happen often enough to explain what we see.

That's a good point... although the first example I saw did not look the least bit random or "flickery." The pattern had regular spacing, and moved very smoothly.

How often would random chance produce a pattern which our brains would interpret as moving? And would CCW appear as often as CW?

((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty Research Engineer snipped-for-privacy@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 snipped-for-privacy@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph425-222-5066 http//amasci.com/