Lead acid battery desulfination?

On a sunny day (Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:23:50 +1000) it happened Clifford Heath wrote in :

Nice, the universe is held togeter with tape and glue...

On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Jul 2014 12:37:02 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann wrote in :

Yes, based on all that it is probably cheaper to use LiFePO4. more charge-discharge cylces compensates for buying new lead based batteries. Lighter too. ebay has these:

There is als some US company that has small ones advertising on ebay, just type LiFePO4 in the search window, they pop up many times.

All made in China, via some site you can go direct to manufacturer (alibaba?) half the price...

On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Jul 2014 10:40:19 -0700) it happened mike wrote in :

Yes, that is the idea of using audio amp to see if REALLY there is resonance... Not sure if using mechanical resonance of the plates to shake of sulphur is the right solution. Maybe that is what should be avoided. Damping.... :-)

On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Jul 2014 12:48:03 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann wrote in :

I know about a guy who had his TV repair shop burn down by leaving a set on in the shop window overnight. No it was not me. He learned.

Good catch. I'll add extra insulation.

New and improved Lithium batteries are coming: No clue on cost, performance, delivery, ecology, lifetime, etc but it looks "interesting". All one has to do is figure out how to prevent metallic lithium and wet air from starting a very hot fire.

[Q] What's the difference between a very high energy density battery and a small incendiary bomb? [A] Not much.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Well, since chemical desulfation is of dubious value, you don't like mechanical desulfation, and I don't like electrical desulfation, what's left? Perhaps faith healing the battery or magic incantations? Maybe congress should pass a law outlawing sulfation? Or maybe a grass roots campaign of "Citizens Against Sulfation" will work? Or perhaps a 99 year endless research program to investigate the causes, effects, and cures for battery sulfation? Considering these available alternatives, I would think the Occam's Razor suggests that mechanical would be the correct method because it's the simplest.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

On a sunny day (Tue, 29 Jul 2014 09:54:37 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann wrote in :

nano nano stuff may be very environmental unfriendly. The minuscule particles can enter our cells it seems. Now imagine thousands of pulverized or burned nano nano batteries..

You would get the same paranoia as with asbestos now.

Anyways I have stated in sci.physics that if most of the 100% better battery papers that we see about every 2 weeks were true, then we would be able to power NY from a battery the size of a sugar cube, for a thousand years. Because current_battery_capacity^n is a very large number... By now more then e=m.c^2 shows there is energy in that amount of mass... LOL

Sulphation is more than just a layering on the lead plates, it actually cracks them too, permanently damaging them beyond repair. De-sulphation is a rip.

Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks. The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery. The battery had only 1/10 of capacity, now it has 1/8. Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way.

So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only:

Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery. You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping):

But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser). So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery. Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average... nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time

Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive? Circuits?

For the amount of time and expense and effort, just buy a new car battery or gel cell. If the battery is 4 + years old, it's no longer going to retain capacity.

Shaun

Excuse me, but i described a simple circuit that works. Used the scheme on a Willard motorcycle battery that was made "dry charged" and was about 15 years old before acid was put in it. It took about 150VAC to get a few milliamps thru it at first. Got it fully recovered; short circuit current was in excess of 200 amps.

OK, but how has the technique worked on a cell that's been wet and discharged for 15 years?

Give it a try; cannot hurt. Oh! Forgot..you have to wait 15 years to get the battery to that spec...

Ok, so you took a NOS dry charged battery, put in the juice. Charged it and it worked to full capacity. That IS what dry charged is designed to do.

I claim that's unrelated to the current thread.

Sorry,that battery was sulphated all to hell; did i not say that it passed only a few MILLIamps at 150 volts?

Well, you did say it passed only a few milliamps. While that is a symptom of sulphation, I'm not sure that supports your conclusion that sulphation was the actual cause and your technique cured sulphation.

I like to learn new things... Maybe you could describe the chemistry whereby a sealed dry charged battery gets sulphated?

Beats me; there is always moisture even in a "sealed" system. In any case,the battery was useless until i put it into my recovery regime.