No-one talked about *you* creating wealth. I talked about you taking it without earning it, thereby using up the efforts of the one who made it, and the resources they made it from.
Of course we can create wealth (or by another name, prosperity, abundance). That doesn't require money.
Utter nonsense. If you take something from someone more deserving and leave it idle, or waste it on yourself, you reduce net wealth.
Clifford Heath.
Not sure if you're trolling. Obviously we can't forget money, but we can consider wealth creation alone, while setting aside any consideration of monetary value.
Again, you seem to be trolling. I wasn't talking about relative values of one thing vs another, which can be tweaked. I was talking about value being inherent (in an indeterminate amount) in anything that anyone wants. It usually takes labour, time and/or resources to make it.
That's like removing an advert from someone persistently trying to sell something worthless for crazy money. If it's not selling, drop the price until it does.
Not even close. To do that, no-one would eat, build, keep warm, or travel to work for the whole year.
World finance is a Ponzi scheme which is destined to crash.
Debt (the total book value of all the assets) is at least an order of magnitude more than the sum of the achievable sales price for them all individually. We've sold 2000 seats to a session in a cinema that has only 200 seats.
Clifford Heath.
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That is absolutely wrong. Every time you work you create wealth/value/mone y. Maybe "money" shouldn't be in that list because technically money is a zero sum item. But value or wealth or whatever you want to call it *is* cr eated when people do things or come up with ideas.
You are confusing trade with value.
Rick C.
"Thin air" means nothing. No person, no time, no *work*. Sure, you can create value if you work. But not out of nothing, the way new money gets created.
Seriously, am I speaking a foreign language, or are you folk *trying* to misinterpret me?
Clifford Heath.
Hmm OK I know little of econ. But if the government makes money it has to either sell debt. (like we are doing now.) or it prints more money.. which leads to inflation... which doesn't change the 'value' of my house, but changes its value in terms of dollars. We can dig more energy out of the ground.
But maybe my simple ideas of money are wrong.
George H.
Sure, the analogy is not perfect. (or maybe it's totally wrong... I'd rather study more physics than econ.)
George H.
Well I'd like to balance the budget... then maybe some slow inflation over ~20 years will reduce it. (but I'll agree that doesn't seem likely in the current political climate.)
George H.
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ney. Maybe "money" shouldn't be in that list because technically money is a zero sum item. But value or wealth or whatever you want to call it *is* created when people do things or come up with ideas.
Not all behavior that gets money for someone creates 'value' See rent-seeking,
George H.
Why does JL say so many stoopid things? The money supply doesn't work that way. READ something. Maybe you'll become smart someday.
Rick C.
I think the dynamics, the control theory aspects, are poorly understood and poorly managed. Government policy should dampen oscillations but instead usually creates them. Few politicians are competant in control theory. Few economists ditto.
The stock martet and real estate (and now bitcoins) have strong greed-driven AC-coupled positive feedbacks. Somehow Nobel-laureat economists miss the big repetitive crashes.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Yes, but money isn't wealth.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Electronic design is interesting in this respect. Anybody can buy insanely cheap parts from Mouser, and a few people know how to arrange those parts into something expensive and valuable. The age of Marxist Capitalism is over, if it ever existed; the ultimate value is ideas.
Supply-chain bean counters tend to not understand this. They would look at the Mona Lisa and ask what the paint cost.
Mouser does want money for parts, and customers pay (ideally lots of) money for the boards that we can build out of cheap parts.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Once interest rates climb back to natural levels, the Federal deficit will really hurt. Janet created a monster.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
I don't know why people say things like this which they obviously made up. Governments don't benefit from inflation. The federal government spends m oney as well as takes in money. When they budget for a project and inflati on makes it cost more by the time it is underway, that means they end up ha ving to find MORE money to finish the project. It is hard enough to budget for a project the first time, it's even harder to find more money to finis h it.
Try thinking like you were in the position of responsibility and maybe you will see how hard a job it is. Inflation just makes it harder to do things in the government.
Another pointless claim. The items Joe Sixpack bought are already paid for by the vendor. He has a continuing account with the credit card company. Joe Sixpack's of the world purchases have little impact on anything. Once the credit is established it has a momentary delta and forever after is pr etty constant, like the impact of a forest. Carbon is tied up. New trees grow and old trees die and the total carbon tied up is constant.
So they go bankrupt?
Your first citation is showing graphs of the period from 2006 onward. Yeah , I expect debt got pretty low around that time as credit cards become very hard to get and all loan money essentially dried up.
The second citation shows curves starting at or near zero and increasing. Really? Consumer revolving debt was zero in 1968?
I'm not certain my cousin isn't responsible for much of the increase. She spends on shopping channels until her card is maxed out and pays it down a little and spends again. Obviously te shopping channels are responsible fo r this dramatic increase in debt.
Not trading. They have automatic fireblocks that kick in to stop trading a nd will actually reverse trades in some cases.
Rick C.
Well then maybe we'll do something.
Janet created a monster. I can't put the blame on one person... We've been spending too much for years. I was hoping for 'the grand bargin' with Boehner and Obama.
George H.
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money. Maybe "money" shouldn't be in that list because technically money i s a zero sum item. But value or wealth or whatever you want to call it *is
Yes, you seem to be talking in a foreign language. How is "value" created out of thin air? I've never seen that happen. Which "new money" are you t alking about?
Rick C.
In "Team America World Police" Kim Kim Jong-il screams, "Why is everyone so f..ing stupid?" Listen carefully... THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T PRINT MONEY TO SPEND ON PAYING DEBTS!
Rick C.
Software is even more so. All you need is a power supply to run your computer. That's what attracted me to it, you can make amazing things using no physical resource.
Three things are needed for a society to prosper:
Every empire was built on these three, but the third one is almost depleted in the USA.
Clifford Heath.
As usual, you've lost the plot. Go back to where this sub-thread started and read it again.
Lol. I think I heard Bill Gates complaining about that recently. He talked about the competition he is facing from the illegal immigrants flooding across the border. They are all setting up competing companies and he can't fight the low prices.
Rick C.
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