DESIGN CHALLENGE - Measure wind veolocity AND direction.as a function of altitude.

Maybe it exists already?

Each morning I watch the Hot Air Balloons navigate olong the the horizon. Their only real control is a very slow up, or down. That is, the ability to go to a height that has a wind the direction the pilot wants. Must be from memory the pilots note wind direction and speed at the various altitudes, so they can extend their flights without ending up in Nevada.

What they could use is a light weight, simply indicating wind vs altitude indicator. That way they have some idea of whether it's worthwhile to 'punch through' a fast moving unwanted layer going the wrong way to another layer going the right way. WITHOUT the need for the pilot to empiricially find the right wind current.

Any ideas of a sensor capable of this?

Even the display is a challenge.

Needs to be portable, light weight, unbreakable [well at least not pose a hazard if it breaks] with a sensitivity range of ??, 2000 feet?

Reply to
RobertMacy
Loading thread data ...

NOAA used to have some radars pointing straight up, that would give you wind velocity and direction at different altitudes. I went to the old link but I couldn't get it to give me any current data. A little digging around shows that they've turned it off:

formatting link

formatting link
gets data from various sources and seems to still be maintained. I don't think it will give you a plot of direction vs altitude for one location only, but the data to do so is there:
formatting link

The measurement equipment can weigh a few tons if needed, and sit on the ground. All you need in the air are a few bytes of data and a display. You also have to be OK with getting what could be critical navigation information from a radio and possibly an Internet link.

Matt Roberds

Reply to
mroberds

They could release balloons, some He filled, some CO2 filled, and track them up and down. Maybe GPS and transponder, maybe just use a telescope. Maybe have them release smoke trails.

Or Chinese lanterns, first up, then down.

Cheers

--
Syd
Reply to
Syd Rumpo

Isn't this what the *other* balloons are for? :>

"Gee, that orange ballon shaped like Garfield-the-Cat is headed in the direction WE want to go! Let's climb to that altitude!!"

Any display is likely relative to "here". Rotate the display (along vertical axis) to see in which orientation it is traveling "along" (*or* normal to) the *current* orientation.

[Heck, you could even show a bar graph indicating the magnitude of the vector *along* the selected direction at various relative altitudes: "If I move to this particular altitude, my *net* travel in THAT direction will be at a rate of... So, I'll miss that mountain up ahead -- or not". As altitude would be relative to "here", your changes in altitude would be reflected in the display: go up a bit more to move more (or less) along this direction]

A tougher problem is indicating up/down drafts!

Reply to
Don Y

Weather vanes and cup anemometers, hung on a line dangling from the basket. Make 'em out of carbon fiber and nylon and they'll weigh a few ounces each. Put them every 50 or 100 feet on the rope.

The display is easy -- just look down to see direction and speed at each station.

Figuring out wind direction going _up_ is harder, but it could be done, possibly with a wireless interface that'd work with a smart phone.

--
Tim Wescott 
Wescott Design Services 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Tim Wescott

Of course you'd need two counter-rotating anemometers at each station to avoid winding the rope up. ;)

The usual method for this is laser Doppler velocimetry (LDV). It could be done for a balloon application, but it wouldn't be cheap.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

A balloonist I knew long ago said much of it was from knowledge of local (for values of "local" depending on where they wanted to go) weather patter ns, sometimes based on what other people told him about unfamiliar location s, modulo realtime weather reports, looking at the clouds and birds (and ot her balloons as mentioned elsethread), and no small amount of guesswork.

How about a drone or seven, programmed to rise to various altitudes while holding given GPS coordinates, and report back how much thrust they have t o expend in which direction. Recall before running out of power, plug in to solar gizmo, send back out.

It could look like that signpost on M.A.S.H. with signs pointing to dista nt cities (only smaller), with the length of the arrows proportional to win d speed. Mechanical of course, just to be perverse in the digital age.

Are autonomous drones legal if they launch and "land" solely on a flying balloon?

Mark L. Fergerson

Reply to
Alien8752

Or alternating CW and CCW.

I was thinking of something that you could make in your garage.

--
Tim Wescott 
Wescott Design Services 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Tim Wescott

Depends whose garage. I build stuff like that all the time. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Don't know that I'd want to be on a balloon that had drones flying around it.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

If you want more control over your destination, get an airplane. Balloons and dirigibles are junk.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

NOAA has gone to a distributed network, it collects an enormous amount of data:

formatting link

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

According to the ICAO rules - no.

--

-TV
Reply to
Tauno Voipio

I didnot know that.

The winds here are 'strange' I've often seen our meighbor to the south,

600 ft away, have his flag on very tall pole waving north towards us and his near by windmill be off from that by almost 30 degrees, yet the two are only 100 to 150ft apart. And for us simultaneously we will have a strong 'north' wind blowing our bushes almost flat with them all lying down towards the south! I have no idea where the air is going, but it is strange. I just assumed that 'strangeness' can occur at higher altitudes. Not sure any 'centralized' service would be able to capture that detail.

Thus, the idea to simply resolve for a balloon pilot what is absolutely there with some sort of sensor to just show him/her what'sgoing on above and below.

Reply to
RobertMacy

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.