This is a new idea, that might interest some. (BTW I am not in any way affiliated)
It's not as developed as Arduino or BasicStamp but it wipes the floor with them in terms of processing power, ram and storage. It should be the Mega too, at least in terms of processing power and at half the prce too!
Seems like an apples-to-oranges (8 bit vs. 32-bit) comparison. Are there not some similar products that are 32-bit ARM based?
I don't think so - not for $12 in a dip package or $20 on an Arduino board. Plus the chip has all the developer software built in - you just need a dumb terminal (now, where did I put that VT-52?)
At a slightly higher price point, there's the Beaglebone Black. 1 GHz ARM Cortex-A8 processor (TI) with NEON floating point accelerator, 512 MB of DDR3, 2 GB of onboard flash storage, USB client (mass storage, network gadget with DHCP server, and power), USB host, HDMI output, Ethernet.
Comes with a Linux distribution on board which provides both shell access (via Ethernet or USB) and which also boots up an X Window desktop on the HDMI.
Runs well on USB power (although a separate wall-wart is recommending if you're re-flashing the OS). Fits in an Altoids tin.
$45, quantity 1.
More than twice the price ($51 in Oz) is not slightly. I just suggested the ByPic because it provides much more grunt at a similar (slightly higher) price point. If you want to throw away all restrictions I have an i7 I can use to control my refrigerator.
I only fount the ByPic because I was looking for something cheap, low powered and hardware orientated that I could make a cluster from without going broke - alas the PIC32 used weren't the high 128k RAM which would have worked. I'd forgotten about the Beaglebone Black Black which would do fine.
But I forgot to say thanks for the tip!
On a sunny day (Wed, 02 Oct 2013 07:13:27 +1000) it happened "David Eather" wrote in :
The problem I have with YAOL (Yet An Other Language), is that:
1) if you have a C compiler your code will run anywhere if it is not hardware specific 2) If you need hardware specific you need to read the datasheets, and then may as well write asm, or C with some parts in asm (inline asm).Every new kid on the block these days starts to write his own language, mostly because they cannot be bothered to learn an existing one, universal one like C. It is an education problem. The result is a language with broken syntax, severe restrictions, not compatible with anything in the known universe, etc etc..
On this subject, anybody remember 8052 BASIC? I once wrote an assembler for 8052 that could produce 8052 BASIC data statements with the binary opcodes in it, so you could simply use
8052 asm inline in the 8052 BASIC:The Intel chip with build in BASIC in ROM was was called 8052-AH IIRC. I still have a small microcomputer with that chip I build, and it actually still works.
So whats new?
On a sunny day (Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:44:21 -0700) it happened snipped-for-privacy@coop.radagast.org (David Platt) wrote in :
These days I have some Raspberry Pis, all tools on it, any language you want, video HDMI analog audio out, digital out GPIO, fast, and cheap!
Raspberry Pi as JTAG programmer:
Raspberry Pi as DVB-S digital TV transmitter:
Raspberry Pi as satellite tracker:
Raspberry P as PIC 18 programmer:
Its the apps that make the thing! Linux has a lot of apps, I add some now and then...
Gah - 8049 - shudder, flashback.
I built a programmer for those too.
Give me my nice M3 / M4 cortices and gcc any time.
-- John Devereux
My immediate thought was that it was a Microsoft problem!!
While I am not a professional programmer by any stretch, it seems to me tha t one has to CONSTANTLY re-learn even the existing languages. Even C and a ll its flavors. It pisses me off. Whatever happened to K&R?
Every time MS comes out with some new product or operating system, the whol e world has to learn to do that same old things in new (but usually not bet ter) ways. For example: The Excel/Word ribbons in their Office products - that design team should be summarily shot; deprecated HTML tags (for which there is no excuse - why intentionally break millions of web pages?!); and of course, anything and everything having to do with their dot-net framewor k.
I'm not a Linux pro either, but I'm sure the above translates just fine.
Next thing you know, MS will outlaw the use of double quotation marks or ta b delimiters in CSV files opting instead to use those old printer escape co des! :)
-mpm
By the way, huge 8051 fan here. I still use the Avocet assembler / C compiler from probably 20 years ago. And other than the Phillips varieties (I'm thinking the 87C752?), I don't r ecall having to learn anything new, just for the sake of change.
Maybe resistance to change is a sign of getting old?
On a sunny day (Wed, 2 Oct 2013 05:35:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened mpm wrote in :
K&R "The C programming language' was one of the few books I had on the shelf, until one day it sort of fell apart or something... I also had (or maybe still have) Z80 asm programming by some metallurgy professor.
Today I was reading that the current 'investors' in MS want Billy The Gates of the board! Somebody mentioned he (Gates) is to MS what Jobs was to Apple. I also did read Billy has been selling MS stock, and only has less than 5% left, and will be without any in 2020. He is a smart guy.
So, when those big money sharks start playing with MS I guess that will go down the drain too. I pretty much still write K&R C, gcc supports it, I recommend people (C programmers) read read libc.info ls -l /usr/info/libc.info* is my programming reference, without it *I* cannot write code. Unzipped all the pieces and made one large text file from it. That, plus K&R, will get you going without limits.
Well, to sell stuff we need to change standards as often as possible, we see that in TV, NTSC, PAL, HD now super HD, we had 3D, and don't forget audio with ever different bitrates, compression systems, and connectors, a new connector type for a new monitor. I have lost count VGA, HDMI, display port, Apple thing, and now they have a new one for the super HD (cannot remember the insane resolution, but many Gbits per second more than HDMI.
Debian Linux is just fine, many distros are based on it. It is work in progress, and a miracle it works so well. Ubuntu worked out of the box on my new Samsung laptop. Debian on ARM on the Raspberry, what more can you want? Gcc is cool.
I used 80xx for my work, retired now, but the small PICs are more powerful.
We should keep the good stuff and ditch the bad. The youngsters get brought up with C++, crime against humanity. They should learn embedded with asm first really, and look at stuff from a hardware POV, before writing Big Bloat. Hey I even consider my own PIC asm bloat, could make more subroutines, but my editor (and the editor you use sets the programming style! AND speed) "joe" is my editor makes cut and paste (via keyboard) so easy I can write a thousand lines while waiting for the coffee water to boil, yes I do that he old fashioned way too.
So do not worry, we, the older generation should be a bit wiser, I made all the same mistakes when I was young. We are, after all here to have fun and play. And learn. All that may go into some common collective consciousness, that what moves everything knows every thing, past present and future, and made me type this too. So WTF.
I used to like Rodney Zaks's Z80 books--I learned a lot from them as a kid. (Never built one though--I did most of my programming in HP Basic of one flavour or another until about 1990.)
The main problem with Linux is that almost everything is dynamically linked to libraries that eventually go away or suffer incompatible changes. Windows is much better at backwards compatibility, historically, at least until Win 7.
I really like C++ myself. I use it even in embedded code, in moderation. My C++ style is mostly "C with classes" plus a few templates, which is a wonderful match for instrument control and simulation.
Yup. But how do you have time for that if you're starting cold at university? You really need a few years' hobby background beforehand.
Fortunately the electronics hobby has made a big comeback--I was worried for awhile there.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA +1 845 480 2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Nasty chip, the 8749. There was a time when it was the very, very best available choice.
They're sporting FPUs, dual asymmetric cores, DSP stuff, all for cheap prices. Luxury.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
-- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Hey, (since the original thread is boring :) :) ), how about the new ADI parts:
Somewhat unobtainium, but there are dev boards so the chip exists. 240MHz CM4, with an ADC and DACs that might, being ADI, actually work.
Some kind of digital bitstream filters, unusual, good for making your own D-S ADC I guess as well as the advertised interfacing to isolated ones.
-- John Devereux
On a sunny day (Wed, 02 Oct 2013 20:14:47 +0100) it happened John Devereux wrote in :
Is not there actually some sort of upper limit to the stuff we need to control our hair driers, fridges, teevees, other home appliances?
I mean what is it used for? ;-)
On a sunny day (Wed, 02 Oct 2013 10:58:18 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs wrote in :
I had 'microprocessor interface techniques' but do not remember who wrote it, could be him. That sure helped me a lot to grasp some basics to get going.
Yes, sometimes I copy old libraries, 'ldd application' will tell you what you need. became more difficult when 64 bit, and impossible now with also ARM Linux. But in general it is not a problem, for export you can statically link too, but I prefer to release source. That may break too... have that with libjpeg.. In the end I write as much code myself as possible.
The world moves on, I like to see the OS and the hardware as ONE system. I only install a new Linux version if I buy a new computer. I do upgrade kernel, but those are often buggy, or have other bugs than the one I finally worked around... LOL I have re-written many applications I wrote many times when changing PC and OS. It is a good idea to keep old an PC with the old WORKING apps around... I made a special partition on the laptop with old OS and all my video editing stuff, too bad the display driver is not working on the latest AMD + Intel (it has 2 graphics cards). So video processing in lower resolution... it is all scripted anyways. But I guess for a Linux newbee they better use something like Ubuntu, and then maybe get a real Debian, and then perhaps Slackware (I am running that as main system now), etc etc,
I had to use Visual C MS for my work, can use it, never liked it. I had to work with Linux C++ code, and had a hard time, but things worked.
If you look at that latest PIC asm code you will find everything is done in interrupt... main is empty...
I wonder what it would need as resources in C++ (and C).
Depends on the uni, Uni Twente Netherlands wrote their own CP/M clone. I could not stay behind:
Yes, somebody was here, looked at all the stuff, and told me they have now some club too, mainly RF stuff, I gave him some redundant stuff to play.
ebay is a great source for parts, we have conrad.nl too, expensive... I guess internet is a great resource to get you going, plenty of fun projects around.
Wait a minute. You don't like having to reboot your hair dryer? Talk about a Luddite. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs (Who is in the process of buying an all-millivolt gas hot water heater.)
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA +1 845 480 2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
On a sunny day (Wed, 02 Oct 2013 19:02:43 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs wrote in :
Yes, right, my Samsung 46inch HD 3D TV actually takes longer to 'boot' than it took my old Philips tube color set to produce a picture, 'warming up'. Something got lost...
Why did everyone get the wrong end of the stick? This is a small, cheap micro-controller for embedded applications. Arduino, ATMEGA, PIC18F or BasicStamp not quiet powerful enough - Then try this it is a 28-pin dip micro-controller. It's NOT a Linux system substitute. Seriously this thread went insane with that. Would you *really* use a PI or Beagle Bone (both nice) for a job that an Arduino might do or needs just a little more power for? Madness. If you want to keep cranking up the power for some ruinous idea that more computation power beyond what is needed is better then you do end up with the latest i7, Xenon or AMD running the refrigerator.
ByPIC is a more capable micro-controller focused on hardware and without pretensions of being anything else. The development system is also based on some novel ideas. Thats all.
Noooo no no no.
"Motor and solar invertors" apparently
Does seem like you could do it in one of your PICs, but what do I know?
Actually do I have an application for one, but it is a bit too far along with another solution now.
-- John Devereux
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