Arrow Keys Going Away

No. For general use, the mouse is the first choice, the trackpad is

The only keys I use on the number pad is the key, and maybe entering the alt codes to enter graphics, special, weird, and foreign characters. Also, when I have a broken key switch and need to emulate the broken key:

Methinks the above YouTube video might explain some of it. Try to think like a teenager and see if you come to a different conclusion. Hint: Winning the game is EVERYTHING.

I use the ash tray in my Subaru for parking meter change, keys, loose hardware, and paper clips. The nearby cigarette igniter socket is occupied by a USB power adapter used to charge my phone, GPS, 2way radio, etc. If my car still had a buggy whip socket, I would use it to mount an inverted broom or ham radio antenna.

I have no idea. When you first mentioned the problem in this newsgroup, I was certain that no keyboard manufacturer could be so stupid, especially on a high end gamer product. Yet, there were quite a few red only keyboards. My guess(tm) is that someone in MSI was living in the stone age and assumed that lighted keyboard was only used by overworked engineers, late at night, working in the dark so as not to wake their wives. That may have been the original target audience, but was soon replaced by a much younger gamer market, which had a very different use in mind. It was still useful for playing games under the covers at night, but also useful for irritating everyone within sight.

You're probably accustomed to the ugliness. Ugliness is in the eye (and mind) of the buyer. For example, I really like Steampunk keyboards: However, nobody else I know likes them, especially after they've seen the price tag. The few people that I know who own one tend to treat them like a museum piece, instead of a utilitarian "appliance".

Mechanical keys need to have some vertical height. It can't be done in a low profile key without compromises. Gamers want mechanical keys. The sound is also important: "WASD - Mechanical Keyboards Cherry MX Switch Sound Comparison 2017"

Incidentally, try this experiment. Find a mouse, low profile, and a genuine mechanical keyboard (preferably with Cherry MX series). Setup some kind of timer to count how many times you can hit one key (the fire button) on the two keyboards and the mouse in a 1 minute time period. No fair using software to program the fire button into a machine gun. You'll find that the mechanical keyboard is the fastest and least tiring.

The issue is height. If you want a mechanical keyboard, each switch is independent and the same size. So, you're stuck with a fixed spacing. If you use a membrane dome switch, you can cram them closer together. They do make smaller mechanical switches, but I haven't seen any in keyboards yet.

Sorry, I forgot to apologize for butchering is statement. However, my adaptation is quite correct. Fashion is now driving aesthetics, industrial design, human factors, features, and probably price in the gaming market. However, don't panic. There will still be machines designed for Neanderthal users who prefer the IBM Selectric keyboard layout, clicky keys, everything in beige, and the Caps_Lock key.

Would you buy a $600 piece of crap with a malformed keyboard? Never mind the features and ergonomics. At what price level will you be willing to tolerate all your complaints?

As price attrition takes its toll, and the game computer market becomes saturated with strange stuff, the price will drop. Something not so worth while will probably find you first.

Incidentally, the M6800 turned out to be real winner. No signs of overheating for general use. However, the fan did come on and stay on with high CPU usage. I replaced the original Toshiblah hybrid drive with a Samsung 860 EVO and everything sped up about 3 times. Very fast and very stable running Win 7 and Linux Mint 19.2 from a flash drive. I had to slow the machine down with DOSBox in order to run an ancient CAD program. No loose hinges or other screws (after I took it apart and tightened everything). Really easy to work on. Thanks for the hint.

Jeff Liebermann wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Cursor keys are used by plenty of folks. Bank tellers ALL use them because their databases were set up such that the cursor keys could move the user from one data field location to the next or previous. Plenty of other uses too and easier in those instances than trying to use the keypad assignments, since it was set to numeric.

There are games that use it too. Nethack, for instance, does not use a mouse.

All of the old arcade games had four or eight way joysticks, unlike modern games where they do not resolve position by way of switches.

When I play those old arcade games, the cursor keys can be set to work on whichever games I am comfortable using them on.

John Larkin wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

A data entry session where all caps are needed in the fields. Much easier than shifting each keypress.

I think that I still have some of those. I have about 150 used keyboards that will be donated to a local Veteran's group. They are all boxed and in storage right now, but I need to get rid of them.

snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote

It was Steve Jobs who originally banned these. He also banned the installation of 3rd party keyboards on IOS devices.

He had some weird ideas. That stupid magnifying glass for cursor positioning...

It wasn't until after he popped his clogs that Apple put them in.

Peter wrote in news:qmklcs$2jq$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

If only Trump had some clogs that will be popping.

I've never encountered anything like that.

On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 11:28:38 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote :

First choice of KEYS! The video does explain the gamer thing. Still, ther e's no reason to shrink the arrow keys. I guess they will shrink with ever y generation and eventually disappear. We need to provide some selective p ressure to make them the same size as the other keys. Maybe it's time for me to make my own YouTube video.

I nearly never use the numbers at the top of the keyboard. Being an engine er I enter a lot of numbers. Anytime I'm not copy and pasting the numbers (fewer mistakes by far) it's with the numeric keypad.

How do you emulate a broken shift key? lol

You are thinking gamers. They started diminishing keys on regular laptops first.

I'm going to use it to add a couple/four USB outlets. I might be able to h eat sink to the metal. But the point is, that's not why it's there. In fa ct they have places to put change in cars today, although that seems to be going away with the use of the EZ-Pass for tolls.

I believe that's why they use Apples in TV shows so preferentially.

That still has nothing to do with the size of the keys, the XY size.

For a while I played a game that basically consists of hitting the mouse bu tton. I used a paint ball technique with two fingers and got up to 20 per second. Not tiring once your learn the technique.

Then I got the rapid clicker software and got up to about 50 clicks per sec ond.

y.

Sorry, you are talking about something completely different. I'm talking a bout the XY size of the key tops. The question is WHY, not HOW. I get tha t they want to make their computers sell the best which is often be tiny in crements that would not matter to most businesses. So they make them look pretty. But gamers don't care so much about looks, they care about functio n. Smaller keys don't function as well no matter what part of the game the y are used for.

No, there won't be laptops. If even the gaming market is moving away from function and chasing fashion, then it is game over.

What I'd really like is a common laptop form factor like they use in deskto ps so I can assemble my own laptop. But alas there is no such thing. Size and weight are such important selling features that no one is going to giv e up even a bit in order to fit a common form factor. Also, they don't rea lly want commonality since they would then have less product differentiatio n.

None. I can get what I want if I buy an older machine. In this case I thi nk I'm going to fix the hinge first, then buy a new keyboard. I just need to find some videos to see how the whole thing comes apart. I don't have t he work bench I used to have, but still have a table top.

I'm glad it's working for you. The newer Precisions have the evil keyboard s. Heck, the one I'm typing on do have slightly smaller numeric and arrow keys, but it's workable.

It all started when they shrunk the function keytops. I should have blown up a few PC factories back then and sent a message.

I actually designed a computer once, two boards full of TTL, for a shipboard data logger. It had three instructions and a 20 KHz 3-phase clock.

I was planning to use a ferrite-core braided-wire ROM for the program, but then Harris or somebody introduced a fusible-link ROM, so we used that.

We did a cross assembler as a few macros in MACRO-11. We later did a

Life's been fun so far.

Cleaning 150 keyboards is not my idea of fun. I've done a bit of experimenting over the years to see what works best. So far, the winner is:

1. Blow compressed air (from an air compressor, not a can) through a narrow nozzle that fits UNDER the keys. Blow horizontally, and all the crumbs, crud, filth, hair, staples, etc, will low out the other end. Move the nozzle around the outer edge of the keyboard to attack the crud from all angles. You might need to use a pair of tweezers to extract large dust balls and hair. You also might need to temporarily remove a few key caps in order to give the air and crud an exit path.
2. After blowing out the crud, spray some kind of general purpose cleaner (e.g. 409) over the key caps and sides. Use a soft rag (not a paper towel) to wipe clean.

I hope this helps.

ote:

That is similar to my method:

I have cleaned hundreds of PC and other types of keyboards in the past 35+ years. I blow out the dust and crumbs, then I stand then up on one end in a laundry sink. I spray a fine mist of household ammonia on them, and wait a few minutes. I follow that with a fine mist of distilled water, to rinse o ff the dissolved crud. I leave them standing on end to dry overnight. I usu ally clean five to ten at a time so that I have clean spares when I need on e. PC keyboards are a lot easier to clean than the early Commodore keyboard s with the taller key caps. Some of those were so grubby that I had to remo ve the key caps, and the circuit board to soak the plastic frame. I would p ut a couple Alka Seltzer tablets in the bottom of a cut off two liter soda bottle and fill it about 2/3 full of the dirty parts, the add warm water to let the bubbles remove the crud. A soft nylon brush and running water got off anything that was left behind.

Michael Terrell wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

I have disassembled entire keyboards from the keycaps down to the rubber table pads on the base, and washed each individual keycap in the sink with Dawn while thinking of happy oil free duckling videos. I clean the outer framework and base as well. No need for drip dry when you re-assemble it with dry parts and never 'spray' it. And with the keycaps pulled, one can clear all dust as well.

I bought an old early '70s Harmon Kardon receiver at a yard sale for $15 one year that worked flawlessly except for the station display cursor on the tuning dial (I know pretty major flaw). I used it as my Front channel amp on my home video system. Anyway, I took it home from the garage sale and took the front panel off to see how bad the tuning dial problem was, and I washed each Aluminum piece with dishsoapy water and a toothbrush and re-assembled it to look like it was new, and it was full of cigarette nicotine when I started. I was fairly pleased that it turned out so well.

Bezos surely wants that. He'd love to listen in to everyone, everywhere.

Nope. Never going to happen in this house. My son gave us a smart speaker a couple of Christmases back. It's still in the box, in the basement.

Then there is the issue of working/surfing with others around. Dumb idea made dumber.

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

I interfaced a PDP-11 to one, to punch cards.

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key: The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in early college:

It was just like some early 5 bit Baudot teleprinters with numeric shift and alpha shift keys and numeric keys labeled on alphabetic keys.

I did my apprenticeship in the early 1960s with a British manufacturer of punched card kit, but I don't remember any of the device numbers! I guess there must have been punches and verifiers, but the sorters, collaters and tabulators were more interesting...

Mike.

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).