AC Induction Motors burning out under no load?

Just 'cuz I'm feeling electronical at the moment, one time on osme scientific teevee show, I saw an AC ammeter in series with a typical vacuum cleaner. I think this was the series-wound type, but it still vividly illustrates the point. They plugged the air inlet, and it whirred up, as vacuums do - oh, heck, come on - we've all done that! Put your hand over the vac hose, and its pitch rises, like it's really, really struggling. Well, the ammeter dropped to about 20% of what it was while just sucking air. There was no air to move, all the motor had to overcome was friction, the air just spun around, and the motor almost freewheeled!

This was, however, involved in the great Kirby vs Electrolux debate. In Kirby salesman school, they told me about the Kirby vs. Electrolux thing - the Electrolux lovers love their Electrolux because it's a cannister. All of the motor's power is applied to suction. The Kirby, however, was an upright, and although built like a f***in' tank, all of the air _AND_ dirt went through its impeller, and depended on the residual pressure from the impeller to put the dirt up into the bag.

But it had an ass-end impeller - there was one impeller for moving air and dirt and trying to suck it up from the carpet and blow it upwards into the dirt bag simultaneously - but motor cooling air didn't go through that air path. The ass-end air cooler impeller just blew air from the cooling holes through the motor's windings, and out wherever, I think maybe even another set of cooling vents.

So you could plug up a Kirby, and it'd whine like an animal in pain, as vacuums are wont to do when there's no air to move, and the Kirby's motor wouldn't care in the least, because it has its own ventilation thingie.

So, the sales trainer says, "Offer to do the test. Tape the two hoses together, let the Electrolux out-suck the Kirby, collapse its bag, and then just leave them like that until one of them burns out."

Lately, though, I've seen an upright with the same kind of air path as a canister - the motor evacuates the space in the bag place, and air rushes through the hose, or directly up the carpet thing, and gets pulled into the bag, and lately, they've got the dirt path go to the top of the dirt bag.

Holy crap, ame I fupped duck or wha?

Thanks! Rich

Any questions, just ping Rich, You Asshole! ;-D %-} ;-D

Reply to
Rich Grise
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It could be a problem if the motor depends on the flow through the blower for its cooling air. If the motor can still get cooling air, and it's only driving a squirrel-cage, I'd say you've got no worries. IF the motor itself still has good airflow, even when the squirrel-cage is totally blocked off and screaming like a banshee, THEN it's probably OK.

The thing is, keep the motor cool.

Most commercially sold motors have some kind of thermal cutout these days anyway, don't they?

Have Fun! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

Why not just ask somebody that's already doing it? Or are they the ones who are scaring you? ;-)

Have Fun! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

Given everything you have told us, the best answer, without modifying the blower, would simply be to restrict the flow to the point that the motor can't overload. Inflation time will be slower, tolerance for leaks will be lower, but cost will be low too.

The real answer is to have the blower manufacturer provide a non-overloading blower for you.

Reply to
BFoelsch

So, what do they want you to do?

Tam

Reply to
Tam/WB2TT

Yep one of our suppliers new products is having this problem, thats why we they are bothering to look at doing it themselves.

Reply to
Mark

No electronic control of the motor at all, just a plain old fashioned switch

Reply to
Mark

Some sort of current limit would be an ideal answer, but cost is a big issue

Reply to
Mark

Yep rich, we are slowly coming to the conclusion that we need to include a small amount bleeding from the air chamber through to the motor chamber to overcome this problem.

Reply to
Mark

The kids will love the "adventure" and want more of it. The parents will see a revenue opportunity, holler "TRAUMA" and sue your ass off.

- YD.

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Reply to
YD

Most motors I know of, even the small ones, have a shroud and fan at the rear end for cooling, whatever is at the business isn't supposed to participate. Where I work some big ass motors have a blower and small motor sitting on top of them only for cooling. Of course, the little one cools itself with the shroud and fan.

- YD.

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Reply to
YD

Size the motor so that it can handle the fan's maximum power when running 'wide open' or at whatever delta P the fan's max power occurs.

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Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
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Reply to
Paul Hovnanian P.E.

[snip]

The fan and inflatable combo should be safe in the event of a power loss. If rapid deflation might cause a hazardous condition, you will need to include a check valve so that the loss of the blower doesn't permit deflation back through the fan. The fan might not burn out, but someone might trip over the extension cord.

I'd expect that the inflatable itself would have a check valve built in so that damage to the air supply hose doesn't result in a collapse.

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Reply to
Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Help them design one that does not burn out? Sorry I did not make myself clear.

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Reply to
Mark

YM if you put your hand against the suction side of your vacuum, it doesn't start to run faster?

Thomas

Reply to
Zak

What about permanently attaching the first piece of hose? Would it give enough air resistance if at leat that is attached?

Alternatively a type of 'constant flow' valve on the input might work (either a flap that partially closes with high air flow or something employing turbulence).

Start meausiring as well: compare the actual motor current (not power) with the permanent current the motor is rated for.

Thomas

Reply to
Zak

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