New secure credit cards?

Just got a new Westpac Ignite Mastercard today (they bought out Virgin). It's got a nice shiny smart card style chip in it. Supposedly a "CHIP based card for increased fraud protection" or some such said the blurb. I didn't know there were any infrastructure/readers etc out there that could take advantage of such a thing. It's still got the magnetic strip as well of course. Anyone got any idea how it works or what it's intended for?

Dave.

Reply to
David L. Jones
Loading thread data ...

Ah-ha, found it, this is what Westpac say:

formatting link

Sounds like no real benefit over my other credit card that I use the pin number with, much better than the useless signature method.

Dave.

Reply to
David L. Jones

It should be very happy letting the bank know all sorts of interesting things about your habits if it is a real smart card.

Reply to
atec 77

They've been using them in the UK for a while now - and there's been a massive increase in CC fraud as a result.

Absolutely no audit trail to protect you - when you report a fraudulent transaction, they say, "You must have given someone the card and number..." At least with the bit of paper you can say, "Show me."

Cheers, Gary B-)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
Armful of chairs: Something some people would not know
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Gary R. Schmidt

It's intended to allow the banks to blame fraudulent transactions on the customer.

See

formatting link

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

Funny thing is if you zap the chip the paper trail is re established easily..

Reply to
atec 77

For the moment. Expect to find that zapping the chip in future results in the card being unusable.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

wrong

Reply to
atec 77

Many of the standard Westpac cards started including this since last year, I've never seen or had any use for it in Australia though, but when I was at a main Paris train station last year, I couldn't buy tickets from any of the ticket machines because my credit card lacked the "chip" on it. The machine only accepted cards with a "chip", and at the time I hadn't received my new one yet. Very annoying, as I was forced to queue up. That's the only time I ever had problems due to lacking a "chip" on my credit card (they seemed to be much more common in Europe).

Regards,

Ross..

Reply to
Ross Vumbaca

Thanks for this Sylvia. I think it implies that Australians should not change to using a PIN instead of a signature until the credit card providers force us to. Agreed?

Reply to
David Segall

I have had a Westpac Mastercard chip type card for maybe 6 months, and only ever found one retail outlet with a chip reader during this time.

BTW Westpac will be issuing new cards for some customers this month. Mastercards will go back to Visa. Only a couple of years ago, I was pushed from Visa to Mastercard. :-)

There are two new systems the banks have been pushing on us for on line transactions for possibly 18 months now. (perhaps longer) Google for Visa's "Verify by Visa" and Mastercard's "Secure Code".

Basically, when you enter your credit card details, you are shunted off to a new web page that asks for your password. If you can't provide it, no transaction. If you aren't registered via your card issuer, they will ask you to register, so you can add this password feature.

As a merchant, we can manually circumnavigate this if requested to do so by the customer, but this usually entails a phone call from the customer.

It has been a real pain in the butt for merchants, as you may loose the customer, or have the need to go through the manual steps. Customer is never warned in advance, and we can't switch it off.

But it's all done for our security. I have an LCD device I have to keep pressing the button on, when I wish to access my CBA account, and Westpac has the qwerty keyboard, password system.

INGdirect, has an ever changing numeric-keypad layout, so that mouse movements are never constant, and so it goes on.

Cheers Don...

--
Don McKenzie

Site Map:            http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Don McKenzie

My wife got an ANZ card with a chip ages ago - back in 2007 I think it was. At that time there were very few of the readers about, and I can remember that the staff in the few places that that did have them were often flummoxed when they had to use the new-fangled devices. These days the readers are popping up all over the place.

The last card I got from CBA has not only the chip for PIN verification, but also a RFID chip. The RFID chip is used for something called PayPass to pay for items up to $35 with no verification of identity at all (no signing, no PIN). I have yet to see one of the readers for that system - their web site lists only 20 of them in Sydney.

Andy Wood snipped-for-privacy@trap.ozemail.com.au

Reply to
Andy Wood

Although I agree with the buck passing part of the Chip and PIN argument, part of the reason for the leap in fraud on UK/European cards is actually because other countries aren't using chip and PIN yet.

Just wait until your retailers get hold of the idea, at the moment I bet they lose money on fraudulent card use, with chip and PIN the banks guarantee the transaction and pass the cost onto the user.

--
Clint Sharp
Reply to
Clint Sharp

What a strange response. How can you possible say that will not be how things work in future?

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

Yes. I have never had a PIN issued for my credit card, although admittedly I have an EFTPOS card with a PIN.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

I've had a PIN on my credit card for some time now, and I love it. You can request a PIN for many cards, more and more places are accepting the PIN now. Quite unusual for me now not to find a place that will accept the PIN.

If credit cards had PIN only and no signature then they would be far safer for over-the-counter transactions, as a stolen card couldn't be used in a shop for instance, just like a stolen KeyCard. The quicker they drop the useless signature the better IMO.

Online is different of course, but at least then the buggers are trackable with goods delivery addressed and the like.

Dave.

Reply to
David L. Jones

PINS can be captured by looking over someone's shoulder, by using video cameras, by using compromised card readers (that can also copy the stripe), etc. PINS are very insecure.

The advantage of a signature is that it has to be genuine (not merely a good facsimile), otherwise you're not liable. The onus of proof is pretty much on the bank.

Banks tend not to go out of their way to publicise it, but existing signature based credit card fraud is largely a cost to the banks (and ultimately spread amongst all users), rather than to the individual whose card was missused.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

But those technical means with which to acquire that PIN are not trivial, almost certainly not available to your usual pick-pocket for example. You can also overcome some of those issues by being aware.

Yep, I know this, but still a pain in the arse when it happens, and having the signature makes this more likely to happen I think if your card is stolen. But if say your wallet gets stolen and your card was only usable with a PIN (or online where they can track you), it would be much less valuable to the common thief. With the signature method it's trivial to use that card to buy thousands of dollars worth of un-trackable goods over-the-counter before it gets reported stolen, hence making it a much more valuable target to common thieves.

I'd rather have no signature and take my chances with the PIN. The PIN is also much more convenient.

Dave.

Reply to
David L. Jones

It's not the average pick-pocket who's the problem. It's organised groups.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

Easily, you both have to wait to see who is right :-)

MrT.

Reply to
Mr.T

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.