Maybe the US government can do something about fake electronic parts

Maybe, but I doubt it.

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-- Trevor Wilson

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Reply to
Trevor Wilson
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It has nothing to do with the US.

There are reputable manufacturers, and some not-so-reputable.

YOUR suppliers are buying crap from the slightly less than above board manufacturers. THAT'S why crap appears on your shelf.

The way to fix it is to put your boot into your supplier's arse and say stop buying from the cheapest possible supplier. Oh, and don't whine about how much it all costs "now".

Alternative is to source yourself. And cut your losses when you find your new super-low-cost supplier pushes out those new-fangled mild steel semiconductors that don't work.

--
Work off excess energy. Steal something heavy
Reply to
John Tserkezis

Probably be a good thing, it might save countless civilian lives if this crap fails in US military systems.

Bodgy crap equipment certainly demoralised the soviet military, so it might do the same here.

Reply to
kreed

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**Of course. Many of us have been hit by dodgy semis over the years. For this reason, I buy mission critical stuff from Element 14 or RS. I NEVER buy semis from Jaycar. My point is that the scourge has now reached an organisation which would normally be expected to source only from premium suppliers. It could result in an industry-wide shake-up. Or not.
**Of course.

**Yeah, I've done that in the past. Nothing happens. My last experience was with WES. About 15 years ago, WES marketed two types of fancy RCA-RCA leads. Both used gold plated connectors and looked nice, so they were easy to install into customer's system. The cheaper of the leads (about $4.00) was absolute crap. Internal construction was VERY tin conductors, a single layer of braid shielding and PVC insulation. I found them to be quite unreliable and fragile. The more expensive lead, looked nicer, with a larger diameter overall, PE insulation and decently sized conductors, with foil and braid sheilding. Wire termination was also superior to the cheap cables. I used it for more than a decade and a half with zero call-backs. Absolutely reliable, but the cost was about $8.00. Acceptable, given the reliability.

Right up until last year. I installed the cables into a client's system and was called back within a few weeks. I found that one of the leads was faulty. Surprised, I replaced the leads and headed back to the workshop. A little confused, I stripped the cable and noticed that the manufacturer had used the old, cheap leads, but covered them in a thick sheath, to make them look more expensive.

I fronted the boss of WES with my problem and explained that he needed to address the issue. I was offered a refund for the dodgy cable (BFD: $8.00), but not my labour and travelling time (I had to return to replace ALL the leads in the system, since I didn't trust the ones WES sold me).

I now ONLY purchase leads where the RCA connectors can be unscrewed, so the cable can be examined. The cost is a little higher, but I don't have to waste time on return visits.

Anyway, WES have done nothing about their crap leads.

**Like I said: I am pretty careful about where I source semis nowadays and have been ever since PA alerted people to the issue.

-- Trevor Wilson

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Reply to
Trevor Wilson

kreed wrote: ...

OK, I had an "Intersect moment" there.

A few years back I lived in NY. At one point met an engineer that worked for a company that made -- among very many other things -- jet engine controllers. The same company may be associated with clock toasters that have a tendency to burst into flames, and maybe an association TV show written by Tina Fey. But I forgot the name.

Anyway, the guy told me he was worried about work. At some point he'd noticed some funny goings-on at the plant that tested the controllers. E.g. there was a big mil-mandated protocol to test the things in climate chambers that could sim any alti to 60,000 ft, and run over a temp range from some big -ve Celcuis to some big +ve temp. The protocol said if there was any failuer during the range of conditions the whole test had to be reset to the start, the device removed, the chamber rested, and the test re-started. Only if the controller passed so many hrs without failure could it be stamped "ok" and allowed to ship out of the plant.

But, said the engineer, he'd noticed some people had been just letting the test run to completion regardless of whether any fault showed up or not. Further, people had been signing parts out of the plant at times-of-day where there was theoretically no-one on duty. And there seemed to be special seals missing from a cabinet. The seals and a special tool to close them were needed to close up the box for any controller that was marked "ok" before it was shipped.

There were a few other irregularities, most of which I forget.

Anyway, the guy had gone to his supervisor with some of the queries and asked what was going on. "Streamlining" was the gist of the reply. Since these contollers went on military aircraft and the engineer had some past association with the military (a lot of people in upstate NY have people in the reserves and it was around Iraq I time) the engieer complained that faulty testing put people's lives at risk.

The supervisor told him not to worry -- it was for the military and military pilots knew all about risk.

--
[Relax -- it's not "global" warming;  it's just "ocean" warming!]
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Reply to
kym

And they won't.

My last dealing with them was when we did a smallish purchase to stock up our bits bins.

Of what we ordered, they had sent a bunch of caps and resistors extra, and some missing from the order. The delivery sheet didn't signify anything out of the ordinary, so I got our secretary to handle the returns and corrections. (it had happened before to due to minor human error a couple of times, so no biggie there).

A little later when she had called them, she called me over saying she couldn't understand what they were saying, which was a little odd in itself, because she had done this sort of thing before several times in the past, and knew what was involved.

So I talk to them, and I kinda gathered why she got confused:

Straight from the horses' mouth at WES, "It is company policy, that if we do not have a particular part in stock, or is not available, we supply the next closest value". And yep, we were talking about resistors and capacitors.

How do you deal with a fuckup of this scale?

I mean, it was easy enough to deal with returns, but how about trying to prevent future fuckups when the causes are so deeply and widely rooted in the company, where the only real "fix" is to nuke from orbit and start again from scratch? A simple chat to the boss along the lines of "get your people into line" isn't going to cut it.

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Let him who is stoned cast the first sin.
Reply to
John Tserkezis

Karma gets these nuts soon enough. Usually via a toaster that had some particular sticker on it, performed by a staffer who didn't work there anymore, for no other reason than that sticker is double checked by someone else who was on his last day, full of beer and cake and really had no incentive to even scratch his own arse.

Then, said supervisor will get a quick and nasty course of risk assessment slap him in the face. But that's OK, he knows all about risk, he manages it every day.

--
Three can keep a secret, if two are dead.
Reply to
John Tserkezis

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I recall some years back there were similar problems with "counterfeit" nuts, bolts, etc that were being used in military aircraft. They would look and be marked identically to the "real" item but would not be made with the same high grade of material needed in that particular specification.

I wouldnt be surprised if a lot in these scams, the military / government officials were involved, and getting kickbacks from these scams.

Also there is the massive profit to be made on replacement aircraft for those that crash.

Reply to
kreed

For the real conspiracy theorists, it could be that the Chinese Government are sanctioning the flooding of Western markets with poor quality counterfeits so as to cause all kinds of disruptions.

Reply to
swanny

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Quite possible, but just as likely to be plain old fashioned greed.

Reply to
kreed

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They might have to stop buying from China.

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Reply to
Jasen Betts

"Trevor Wilson"

** PA = me, right ?

So when do you recall I first alerted people ?

And where ?

... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

**Correct.

**If I had to guess, about 20 years ago. Give or take.
**Buggered if I can recall. I only know that I first learned of the scam from you.

-- Trevor Wilson

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Reply to
Trevor Wilson

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:46:07 +1100, Trevor Wilson put finger to keyboard and composed:

What surprises me about that article is not that the Chinese are supplying fakes, but that the Americans are putting ANY Chinese made stuff in their own weapons systems.

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

"As of 2009, the percentage of global semiconductor production capacity located in the United States was 14 percent, down from 25 percent in

2005 and 17 percent in 2007. Japan has the highest share of global capacity (at 25 percent), followed by Taiwan (18 percent, up from 11 percent in 2001), Korea (17 percent, up from 11 percent in 2001), Europe and the Middle East (11 percent), China (9 percent, up from 2 percent in 2001) and Southeast Asia (6 percent)."

Pay especial attention to the growths in Taiwan, Korea and China.

Let me know how you like things in several years' time...

--
Strip mining prevents forest fires.
Reply to
John Tserkezis

Is that when the US will be ranked economically below countries like Bangladesh? No doubt wages in the US will have fallen to Bangladeshi levels by then as well.

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Krypsis
Reply to
Krypsis

Umm, it was "US" companies that moved production to these countries in the first place.

Reply to
terryc

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