Why do these GFCI receptacles trip?

those same conditions, they can be inconvenient. That is a given. "

You mean inconvenience like going to work in stinky clothes or having all y our food spoil because you can't afford a new refrigerator ? "Inconvenience s" like that ? i do not disagree, but there are times when the risk is just so insignificant it is not worth the bullshit. And the washer is even wors e than the bathroom. In most bathrooms the floor is nowhere near and effect ive ground. The sink and tub, even if connected by copper and cast iron (so me still is) almost all of them use like a whip like a condensing unit, pla stic and non conductive. Unless you have really hard water the water itsel f would not be too much of a problem. It does not conduct all that well, th e salts etc. in it do and they get there from what is on your skin when it gets wet. You may not agree, but I think it is fine not to wear a seatbelt and to turn off the air bags if you feel like it. Unless someone owns you.

Then there are statistics. How many lives have air bags saved if the perso n is wearing a seatbelt ? Close to zero and even then they might just hit t he windshield. I just read about the newer requirement for arc proof breake rs and the site cites how many1 people have been electrocuted but it doesn' t say how many would have been saved by an arc proof breaker. This is more like the best advertising in the world, FORCE them to buy it. I see things done now with newer style devices and splices that i think should be agains t code. Are they ? Nope. Like that newfangled Teflon tape, it MAKES tapered thread fittings on pipes leak and I got proof. At the DIY they tell you it is code but it is not.

urning via the neutral line."

As well as the opposite. That is why they cannot share a neutral except und er certain conditions.

es into a circuit. "

Yes they will. that is the idea except for the "deliberately" part. you thi nk they are worried about the electric meter not detecting the current thro ugh the neutral and not charging you for it ? News flash, the neutral does not even go through the meter. It doesn't have to, no matter where the curr ent from the hot(s) go(es) it registers.

When any part of that current goes anywhere else it trips. It is set to the almost lethal range I think. At least top where muscle contraction would m ake it impossible for someone to let go.

hat commonly will not trip a regular breaker will often trip a GFCI, yet no t be defective - this due to the momentary turn-on surge. "

And just what do you propose to remedy that ? Just don't use it and sell it to someone in another country, oh wait, it probably won't be compatible wi th their power. So I guess just throw it out and do without your lathe, mil ling machine, planer, jointer, bandsaw, just throw it all in the garbage. O K.

t is for a reason. As it is a life-safety device, the point of all this is not to defeat it, but to correct the reason for the tripping. "

Are you about to take on advising people how to do that on everything ? Wil l you also tell them to scrap that 1957 Chevy that's worth $ 35,000 because it doesn't have an air bag ? I live in the real world, do you ?

Any other advice is blather. "

So you are claiming you are the smartest which means you hit 192 on an IQ t est, rewired 20 houses and satisfied the most strict inspectors in town ?

Well then I will put out an ad for you for giving free advice.

The washer here is not on a GFCI and I will go down to the uncovered floor in the basement and load the washer in my bare feet. And I will not put my bench on a GFCI. And nothing in the garage is going on a GFCI.

The point is that not everyone can have everything just perfect.

prove you can't fix stupid."

So send the guy a check so he can afford to be safe. As him how much. If you send it somehow through a non-profit organization you can deduct it off your adjusted income.

with Levitons "

One good solution. Stick with Leviton.

That is what makes them trip fist at like 20 amps, give or take. Worls well except for certain motors that only take more for a part of a second to st art.

Square D QO series breakers use a scheme something like that without the nu lling effect. They also have thermal which operates more slowly, trying to actually approximate the temperature of the wire. they are about the best t hat can be had as far as I know.

Truthfully, you'd be better off paying for arc-fault breakers. They provide a level of safety against arcing that is likely to cause a fire. The human risk is greater than shock. And certainly GFCI functionality is NOT needed in every circuit in your home. Add the GFCIs where the local risk of shock warrants the installation.

On 7/24/18 3:33 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: [ His usual anti-government anti-regulation conspiracy nonsense. ]

And here we have proof of what I said about you can't fix stupid.

I missed that, thinking someone else posted it. Many GFCI outlets had outpu ts on the back to be sent to other outlets that would be also protected. I did break code one time to void a serious shitload of work on a prequoted j ob. It was to protect over the counter lighting in the kitchen.

In the 1990s i became against code to use the device for the splice, so all those outputs on the back became useless, the only code option was to run a GFCI breaker in the box. If you had seen the job you would have done the same thing. And there was no changing the plan or the price. We, well the boss of the job didn't even set the price, the customer said "I have this m uch money". Leaving his kitchen half apart would have resulted in a lawsuit .

Nothing is dangerous, the spirit of the code saying the device can't be the splice was because it could complicate replacing the device.

To everyone here, when you have been there and done as much as I have then you can tell me. And again, the strictest inspectors in town. They find out I did it they might not even inspect. I still always expect it, and I thin k that if someone gets killed because of your wiring you should go to jail.

Take it to about a 45 amp load for 30 mS and most will trip.

But in general, you are correct. Overcurrent protection is not their primary function.

there was no access to the breaker, because it was in the house. I instruc ted him to install a sub panel with breakers and GFCIs in the outlets -- or use GFCI breakers. An expensive option. "

Not all that bad really, unless you don't know where to get the stuff. I li ttle 6 position MLO might only be $ 30, one 240 V GFCI, that's expensive. t hing is, if there was no wiring in the garage before, they want to see arc proof. Whether that is actually law is debatable, but the GFCI breakers can be as low as like $ 15. (regular breakers are inder $ 10) so 3 of them and one 240, that meets the requirement of five moves or less to shut down the building. (but not if it is an attached garage, then you got no problems a s long as there is a main breaker at the mains coming in, if you run separa te SERVICE that is different and I have known people to do that, they paint ed cars and had a huge compressor)

For attic lights when there are no outlets ? OK then, that is your prerogative.

You have every right to do so. You have every right to put roll cages and five point restraints in your cars. You have every right to buy only saws that have that protection for if you touch the blade it stops in microseconds.

But not to do such things by 21;37:11 tonight because they might DIE at 21:38:45 tonight does not mean they are stupid.

Let him pay the freight.

In one bedroom we got a lamp, an overhead light and a litterbox. I know how dangerous those litterboxes can be.

In another we got a window AC unit, an unplugged older PC, a TV and a conve rtor box.

Here's the biggie, in my bedroom I got an old CRT TV (with the best friggin color rendition I have seen in a ong time that NO LCD could ever match), a convertor box, a VCR, an amplifier of about 15 WPC and a Pioneer SG-9500 E Q so I can understand almost half of their shit that sounds like it is comi ng through a series of paper towel tubes.

Yeah, all that is about to arc out. Who knows, I might decide to shoot up t he place. Oh wait, I am not on any psychotropic drugs, nor need them.

You know, those damn internal connections from the power cord are only like an inch or two apart, and you know how 120 volts can all the sudden arc ac ross that.

Oh wait. It doesn't.

And of course the wet bar, oh wait, no wet bar. I guess I will have to put one in. It's nearly 10 feet to the kitchen. And aa small fridge, well those are always arcing over. Right ? Didn't that kill like thousands of people every year ?

Oh wait, that was medical mistakes that killed 250,000 people a year. I thi nk if you jump out every breaker and fuse in your house you are ore safe th an if you are in the hospital. And this is the AMA's own figures. Look it u p.

So if you DO get a severe electric shock, seems to me you are better off wr ithing on the ground and moaning until it passes rather than calling 911.

The odds are better.

Thanks for that Chuck. I think the GFCIs that I have are probably OK but are just not capable of handling the inductive kickback from my stuff. Eric

those same conditions, they can be inconvenient. That is a given.

urning via the neutral line. If they detect this condition of more than a v ery, very few MA, they trip. Meaning that they WILL NOT protect anyone deli berately inserting themselves into a circuit. This despite sincere and touc hing wishes otherwise.

this happens DOES NOT make the GFCI device faulty. It makes the device fau lty. What the device is doing is getting current from the hot side and send ing it somewhere else but the neutral.

ill cause false-trips, especially with motors.

hat commonly will not trip a regular breaker will often trip a GFCI, yet no t be defective - this due to the momentary turn-on surge.

t is for a reason. As it is a life-safety device, the point of all this is not to defeat it, but to correct the reason for the tripping.

unfortunately that's incorrect on several points.

I am pretty much convinced now that it is the inductive kickback that is causing the problem. The clipper motor is more akin to a solenoid and I figured out that the washer is almost always tripping the GFCI when a solenoid valve is turned off. In any case the tripping ONLY occurs when the load is removed. Eric

de a level of safety against arcing that is likely to cause a fire. The hum an risk is greater than shock. And certainly GFCI functionality is NOT need ed in every circuit in your home. Add the GFCIs where the local risk of sho ck warrants the installation.

UK now requires gfci protection (at the panel) on all domestic circuits. So when smoke particles land on the fire alarm mains supply wiring, the fire alarm loses its power. Great eh.

NT

Oh, you thought they want you alive ?

HAHAHAHAHA

have you tried some snubbers?

the place. Oh wait, I am not on any psychotropic drugs, nor need them.

ke an inch or two apart, and you know how 120 volts can all the sudden arc across that.

t one in. It's nearly 10 feet to the kitchen. And aa small fridge, well tho se are always arcing over. Right ? Didn't that kill like thousands of peopl e every year ?

In wiring ? I've seen those, I find it hard to believe they're code. Someone had a little private meeting.