Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers (in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa


Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it
(in
Quoted text here. Click to load it
by
is
always
won't
is
can

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your wire
fudge bridge after placement.



Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do  a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bullshit here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole shitload of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny

Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it
weeks
shorted
device
guess.
reasonably
'jukebox'
Which
place
their
wire

I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do  a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bullshit here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole shitload of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny

+++++

So how many genuine American manufactures are there ? That is use
leaded-solder tinned components as well as leaded solder for assembly?
There is only one production line type used in China , Taiwan etc these days
, they had to go with Europe , the biggest market, 6 years ago and is now
all PbF (outside of derogated industry enduse ).
I suspect any genuine USA manufacturing, outside of the derogated
aerospace/medical/defense/nuclear industries, using proper solder, is in the
range 0 to 5 percent

Just because "American" equipment is not marked with PbF or RoHS etc , does
not mean there is not PbF inside. Do some basic physical tests on the solder
, along with researching the UL E-number on the boards will likely show its
from the orient .



Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper

Quoted text here. Click to load it
I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline? In the July 28th issue of Science News there is an
article about California Condors ingesting lead from animals killed by
being shot with lead bullets or shot. According to the article the
condors are being poisoned by the lead and it has such a deleterious
effect on the condors that without human care the condors would die
out. Their population is not self sustaining without human
intervention because of the lead. And there is plenty of evidence that
lead in gasoline and lead bearing paint has caused neurogical damage,
among other health problems, in children. Banning leaded gasoline and
lead bearing paint has shown a marked decrease in neurological
deficits in children typically exposed to lead in the past. Even so,
how much of a problem is lead in electronic devices? Would we be
better off with some type of legislation that requires electronic
devices to be accepted by retailers for recycling? Maybe by putting a
deposit on electronic devices that is refunded when the device is
replaced?
Eric

Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it
weeks
lasers
shorted
that
device
guess.
stuff
whisker
hence
reasonably
time,
'jukebox'
on
it
you
Which
place
their
wire

It hinges on what you mean by "recycling"
Fashions and technology-advance mean zero recycling of components.
Substantial single-type metalwork is separated and recycled , the rest is
sent exceedingly cheaply in otherwise empty conntainers to Asia where it is
burnt and residual metal extracted from the cremulators.

Gizard anatomy birds like swans , have much improved health since the
banning of lead fishing weights in the UK. Birds shot with lead or
lead-substitute are still dead , so no health improvement there.



Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
<snip>

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Removal of lead from gasoline and paint, were valid exercises, as the lead
from the gasoline fumes was easily ingested, and the lead from paint could
find its way into the environment in an ingestible form, reasonably easily.
However, solder appears to have gotten itself hitched to these campaigns,
merely by association. It was, as far as I can tell, another example of
hysteria that surrounds the eco-bollox movement, and any perceived
detrimental effects of lead being in solder, have been hugely exaggerated,
and are largely without foundation.

Tin and lead is a stable compound, and the lead does not wash out of it in
water. Pure lead is not soluble in water. There was talk of it being a huge
problem with electronic items in landfill, having the lead 'leeched out' of
the solder by ground water, but there seems to be little evidence that this
ever did, or could occur, without the rain being extremely acidic, and that
situation hasn't existed for years since industrial airborne pollutants were
legislated against in most of the civilised world.

For some years now, EU countries have had the Waste Electrical and
Electronic Equipment (WEEE) directive in place, and this ensures that all
electronic equipment is 'recycled' in some form. As Nigel says in his posted
reply, this does not actually ensure that much in the way of 'true'
recycling is done, but as all of the equipment now *has* to find its way
back into the system, paid for by the manufacturer as a levy on his sales,
then it *could* be. It would not be that hard to re-extract the lead, if
possibly a little more costly.

Everyone at the sharp end knows, in truth, that lead-free solder is pretty
useless stuff. Like eco-bollox lightbulbs, it's not a replacement
technology, it's a substitute one. It has caused both the electronic
manufacturing and repair industries huge problems in the requirement to
change equipment and processes, and in increased energy useage, And for what
? To address a 'problem' that wasn't there in the first place. Aside from
the manufacturing and service problems it has caused, I would contend that
it has almost certainly resulted in a far larger quantity of consumer
electronic equipment being life-ended earlier than would have previously
been the case, due to bad joint-related failures that are not worth getting
repaired, because it's cheaper to just buy a replacement piece of Chinese
junk from the nearest shed or supermarket. This has the knock-on effect of
being hugely wasteful of resources and energy, which is a far greater
overall problem to the well-being of fauna on this planet, than lead in
solder ever was ...

You might want to consider why in any areas where equipment is likely to be
used to preserve human life - e.g. avionics, medical, military - such
equipment is exempt from the lead-free solder manufacturing requirement,
that non-critical equipment has to abide by.

Arfa


Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Not in pure water, maybe, but organic acids (acetic acid) attack lead
and you can't have decomposition of organics in contact with lead in a landfill,
without some leaching.

Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it
landfill,
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Which goes nowhere at all.  Landfills are lined with very thick clay
layers, and even if they weren't, heavy metals don't go anywhere in
ground water at earth-surface normal temperatures.  See the Oklo natural
reactor in Gabon.  It was sitting right there in an aquifer, and
operated on and off for half a million years.   The fission products
went something like 1 mile in well over 1 billion years.

The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks doing recycling.
To save some gloves and respirators, they created a monster.  Typical
Eurocrat BS.


Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it

That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and other solvents)
leech lead from electronic equipment, and it winds up in drinking water.



Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.


Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it



It's not BS if it's true.

I have never seen conclusive evidence one way or another. From my
perspective, the real issue is the huge piles of electronic trash generated
every year. If these were properly recycled and/or disposed of, there
probably wouldn't be an issue with lead.



Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Europe has the WEEE directive to deal with waste electronics equipment - but
the recycling facilities are being overstretched due to the increased volume
of scrap caused by low life expectancy lead free solder.


Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes, it's a truly elegant example of self-fulfilling nonsense legislation,
enacted by fools who have insufficient knowledge of the subject and the
wider implications of the changes they cause ...

Arfa


Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it
but
volume


Its only marginal that any "recycling" can be currently done in a western
economy (with E European or Mexican labour/labor rates) . If metals pricing
goes down then even that section , which as far as electronics scrap is
really only the metal casings of pcs ,  will go back in those thousands of
otherwise empty shipping containers back to the east. The dodgey sell-on of
containers of  "nominally" working scrap electronics to Africa will continue
though.



Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...


Quoted text here. Click to load it

There was a documentary on TV about that something like a year ago - one or
two of the "nominally working" items were TVs doctored by the investigating
team to not qualify for that classification, and fitted with tracking radios
to find out where they ended up - usualy W. Africa.

Car batteries which are allegedly recycled in accordance with the WEEE
directive; end up in a big pile in India, which is set alight and street
urchins (usually barefoot) shovel the molten lead into wheelbarrows as it
runs out the bottom of the pile.


Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Isn't it lovely how we continue to give useful and worthwhile work to the
ex-colonies ...     :-)

Arfa


Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I find this hard to believe.

A charged lead-acid battery contains plates of both elemental lead and some
oxidized form of lead. Burning the battery would presumably release only the
former, a waste of the latter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery

A discharged battery contains less elemental lead and more oxidized lead.
Burning it will not reduce the oxidized lead to elemental lead.

Auto batteries have been recycled in the US for decades. The cell
construction of a car battery makes recycling relatively straightforward.
Burning the battery is just plain stupid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_battery_recycling

Note the remark about the sometimes-high value of lead-acid batteries.

In short, I think this story is phony-baloney.



Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...


Quoted text here. Click to load it


Unfortunately the slum dwellers in India never got around to installing
state of the art metal reclamation plant.


Re: Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...
Quoted text here. Click to load it


True. But the point is that there seems to be no point in doing a botched,
inefficient job of reclaiming battery lead.



Site Timeline