We have 240V outlets here, like for clothes dryers and ovens and other big loads. They use two 120 volt inputs from the breaker box, no relays or lights or anything.
Seems like one needs two 120V male plugs, some wire, and one 240V female.
Anybody who uses reference designators like JP2 and LMP3 is clearly an amateur.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
You can get higher voltage and even 3 phase to your home. You will pay each and every month for that connection even if you never use a single watt. The vast majority of home owners... garage owners never need more than 120 volts 15 amps.
Rick C.
++ Get 6 months of free supercharging ++ Tesla referral code -
main via 4 #6 or #8 wires. 440V should be optional. I want 440V in my ga rage.
e US. Hope it gets to residential users eventually. 240V is not enough fo r EV, or aluminum melter. I want to charge up my EV and melt and cast alum inum.
In the US homes get 240 volts and anything in the last 50 years should have 200 amps. My family home built in '64 only has 100 amp service.
Here many units are 30 amps, but for Teslas you can get up to a 100 amp cir cuit with the car drawing 72 amps. That's a hefty load for sure and not st rictly needed. I'm presently still charging from 120 V, 15 amps with the c ar drawing 12 (the US has an 80% factor for continuous loads). Since I don 't drive much while here it has several days to charge before I leave typic ally. But since there have been times when I wanted to turn around and lea ve again in less than 8 hours, something above the capacity of a 14-50 outl et can be useful. That requires a Tesla Wall connector which is the Tesla equivalent of a J1772 unit. The J1772 can provide up to 80 amps to the car , so if anyone wants to, they can do the same charging on either unit.
All of this is fairly slow compared to a Supercharger which I don't think y ou can get. 80 amps is about 20 kW while a Supercharger is 120 kW.
The real issue is charging at home means you don't really have to think abo ut it. Connect the car when you get home and it will always be full. Never visit a gas station again... unless you want coffee or a bathroom. lol
I've heard they are rather small having as few as four circuit breakers. I 've seen ancient fuse panels here that have just four fuses. I guess maybe heavy loads are less common there?
I understand you get power from France when you need it. DC lines under th e channel. No?
Rick C.
--- Get 6 months of free supercharging --- Tesla referral code -
We both know that some of the new EVs with 80 KWhr will take days to charge up. I know someone driving uber is living next to a fast charger as second home (so to speak). I am sure he can make use of higher voltage at home.
We used gas to heat the forge. Seems a better way to me.
Rick C.
--+ Get 6 months of free supercharging --+ Tesla referral code -
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 6:44:13 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :
e:
240 volts at a home or business that doesn't have 240 volt outlets is to pi ck off two outlets that are wired to separate circuits on opposite sides of the 240 volt power. There is a commercial product for this and designs on the web. I found this schematic.ms the issue is that without the input relays when you plug the unit into o ne outlet the path through the output relay coil can energize an exposed pl ug pin. But I don't see the need for two poles. Running the 120 volt conn ection through the input relay contacts on just one side of the output rela y coil will prevent the two inputs from being energized when only one is pl ugged in.
nly advantage I can see is that with the two pole relays a single stuck con tact won't be dangerous. In a one pole approach it can pass a dangerous vo ltage to the input plug pin. But you can hear relays working so a stuck re lay can be detected. Also it has indicators on the inputs so you can tell the relay isn't clicking because of a failure rather than simply no voltage . So this risk seems minimal.
e dangerous when 2 or more component failures occur. Hopefully the relays u se the 3mm+ contact spacing required to be acepted as safe isolation. K3 ju st takes the same principle further.
levels of K1,2,3. No electrical equipment is free from shock risk after al l. Personally I'd not want to bet on its safety, I'm not hugely confident t hat relay contacts wouldn't weld from carrying/switching EV charger current s. But to be fair I don't have the figures that the engineer or hack who de signed it might have.
n interlocks use.
I get it. I had considered stuck relays, but I didn't realize they were th at common. Thanks
Not sure what interlock you are referring to... the door?
Rick C.
-+- Get 6 months of free supercharging -+- Tesla referral code -
"I want a second opinion!" "You're also lazy!"
The point of connecting opposite phased 120s is, it's dangerous. Consider the case when there are other loads in parallel with the outlets shown. When one 120V circuit blows, the 240V load can partial-power them from the remaining 120V circuit. None of the relays may open, because holding voltage is always much less than pull-in or nominal voltage is. (YMMV for AC coils, which are less efficient and vibrate some.)
Tim
-- Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
When designing line-connected equipment (even for just occasional personal use) you have to think very carefully about all the possible fault-conditions and transient that can occur, even when just used occasionally for personal use.
Sometimes you lose a phase, sometimes there are undervoltage conditons, sometimes overvoltages, sometimes hot and neutral are reversed, maybe on both 120V plugs, sometimes earth ground is lost maybe on both plugs, etc.
I don't see any way to immediately mentally or mathematically verify that connection of relays is latch-up or glitch free such that a fault condition can't occur which blows the whole thing up. I immediately see a problem if K3 fails shorted, sure. Yikes!
It would require extensive testing at safer voltages and currents to verify but why, if you have to do this electronically there are 21st century ways to do it not 1930s ways. Or just some wire and plugs may be good enough (and safer too, wire doesn't have that many fault conditions to think about!)
Not to forget it's drawn in Eagle. Default colors, free version I would bet. Let alone, posted on Hackaday...
"She's LMP she's LMP she's LMP she's in my head..."
Tim
-- Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
Yeah I didn't even think of that. You could try to think of everything that could go wrong, but why when it would be easier to design something in a fail-safe way from the outset instead of being hacky/clever and then try to figure out how to make it safe after-the-fact
There are very few truly elegant circuits just circuits that suck in ways you haven't thought of yet
Lol that's a blast from the 90s isn't it. Everybody wanna be naked and famous
elays
and
And i am sure the electrical inspector would not be happy seeing it.
To quote this:
Tesla's installation guidelines for NEMA 14-50 states:
-Circuit Breaker: 50 amps
-Voltage: Single phase, 208-250 volt AC supply, 60 hertz
-Four Wire Configuration: Line 1 - Line 2 - Ground - Neutral
-Conductors: 6 AWG copper wire for circuits up to 150 feet
-Outlet: Use a high quality, industrial grade outlet
-Ground Pin Orientation: Top position of outlet
-Ventilation: Not required
No outlet wires of 10 or 12 AWG permitted.
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 8:22:23 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wr ote:
the main via 4 #6 or #8 wires. 440V should be optional. I want 440V in m y garage.
the US. Hope it gets to residential users eventually. 240V is not enough for EV, or aluminum melter. I want to charge up my EV and melt and cast al uminum.
each and every month for that connection even if you never use a single wa tt. The vast majority of home owners... garage owners never need more than 120 volts 15 amps.
ge up. I know someone driving uber is living next to a fast charger as sec ond home (so to speak). I am sure he can make use of higher voltage at hom e.
Sorry, I'm not referring to charging a car. I'm talking about what should be "required" wiring in a home. Going forward having at least a 30 amp, 24
0 volt line in the garage will be de rigueur. But it will be a while befor e it is added to building codes.BTW, my car is 100kWh. It takes three days for me to be ready to head back north each week, lol! Although they've added a new Supercharger to the mi dpoint of my 120 mile trip. That helps with the round trip immensely.
Rick C.
-++ Get 6 months of free supercharging -++ Tesla referral code -
relays
t and
g
What does this have to do with anything??? You do realize the Tesla mobile adapter will connect to around a dozen different types of outlets includin g a 5-15, 120 volt 15 amp circuit? There is also a 6-20 adapter which plug s into a 240 volt, 20 amp outlet and a 6-15 which plugs into a similar 15 a mp outlet? Do you think larger than 12 gauge wire is required?
On one hand Tesla has a lot of info available. On the other hand it can be a bit confusing. My car with the 100 kWh battery was made with a 72 amp c harger built in. The docs on the web site don't acknowledge this. Seems t hey've done some consolidation and only provide all models with a 48 amp ch arger now although I haven't confirmed this as yet.
Rick C.
+-- Get 6 months of free supercharging +-- Tesla referral code -
In a decade or two, it might be "required" wiring in a home.
Some codes, perhaps not NEC. Who would have thought that solar panels would be required in all new constructions in California.
Well, you are still one of the few getting free supercharging. New Tesla owners might not think like you. I see lots of Tesla plugged in J1772s.
he relays
or
ent and
ging
le adapter will connect to around a dozen different types of outlets includ ing a 5-15, 120 volt 15 amp circuit? There is also a 6-20 adapter which pl ugs into a 240 volt, 20 amp outlet and a 6-15 which plugs into a similar 15 amp outlet? Do you think larger than 12 gauge wire is required?
It is saying that 6 (perhaps 8) AWG is necessary for 50A.
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:03:11 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wr ote:
l be de rigueur. But it will be a while before it is added to building cod es.
uld be required in all new constructions in California.
By de rigueur I meant it will be desired, not that anyone would be requirin g it.
At this point hotel chains don't even let you select for having charging fa cilities on the web site. You have to go to each location's web page and w ade through the list of amenities.
back north each week, lol! Although they've added a new Supercharger to th e midpoint of my 120 mile trip. That helps with the round trip immensely.
owners might not think like you. I see lots of Tesla plugged in J1772s.
Not sure what you think is going through my mind. A full charge only costs $12. I would never sit around for an hour to save $12. I do it because I have no place to charge at one end of my trip. So I can't make the round trip without charging.
BTW, free Supercharging has only be other than free for life recently. The re are still more pre-model 3 Teslas than there are post-model 3 Teslas on the road. That will be changing as model 3 production continues, but they' ve been making 10,000 a year of the model S for six years and the same of t he model x for a few as well and still cranking them out.
+-+ Get 6 months of free supercharging +-+ Tesla referral code -
I would expect this to trip any earth-leakage detector as soon as it's used.
Sylvia.
What is 440 V ? Where in the US is it used ?
I have only seen 3-phase 120/208 V and 277/480 V wye/delta used for industrial systems in the US.
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.