Sharing fixed problem with our telco lines

Actually, sharing with you all, but English, what can I say?

this started after the famous flooding here - covered in the national news. PROBLEM: outgoing calls: NO problem, clear voice line and dial up modem within 95% of 'normal' [seen slower rates before with damp weather] incoming calls: the ring sounded anemic, like a single tinkle, not to be repeated. Pick up phone, and someone was there?! albeit the connection sounded like old fashioned long distance.

FAILED SOLUTION: at first I thought telco must have a flooded building nearby so called telco supplier, Century Link, Operator said sounded like a crossed connection. she confirmed the possibility by saying outgoing wouldn't notice, but with incoming the office tries to connect to two lines. Put high priority on repair and someone was driving around here the next day. The technician probably checked a lot out first, then came to our building and left. Later I called in, the repair ticket said FINISHED determined to be inside our building, bill the customer $85 !!!????

And yes. the line worked after the technician's visit; BOTH ways ?! I know all he could do is disconnect, test, and reconnect.

Regarding THAT solution, I was livid to have the telco supply a potential scenario of responsibility, THEN turn around and bill me for 'fixing' it, claiming its me. Keep in mind the phone line now works. After a few calls to Century Link , and convincing them I was misled by their employees as to the source of the problem, and the fact that it now works with whatever their employee did; they reversed the charge. [I'm in Electronic Design and cannot even fathom a piece of electronic gear that could duplicate this effect, well not without some effort anyway.]

PROBLEM AGAIN yesterday, the problem came back with a vengeance! outgoing, no problems. Incoming, tinkle ring and poor voice connection. Called the Operator to 'test' the line with a ring back [hang up, listen for ring, no matter what pick up line within ten seconds to reconnect to Operator] This time the phone line was completely dead, no microphone feedback! About an 1 1/2 hour later, phone line worked again for outgoing. Tested incoming, and again a dead line ?! Wow this is strange. Checking around, within 1/2 hour, no dial tone, but would get that screaming tone as a precursor to "hang up your phone" ??!! Very weird.

SOLUTION Thought I'd 'pretend' problem was in our building, so removing the break out panel for the phone system to our whole building found the distribution bar for all the wired telephone outlets, thought I'd start to check AND! one of the wires for the incoming telephone cable coming into the bus LIFTED OUT OF ITS COMPRESSION SLOT!!! The wire oddly was dull showing a film of corrosion, pressed the wire back in and voila! Everything works again.

CONCLUSION Evidently, the connection had been slowly sliding out of the compression slot and the poor connection worked for the low current OFF HOOK status and the low current ON HOOK status when making an outgoing call. BUT, when confronted with that 90V ring tone, the higher impedance must have played havoc, because it even caused a poor voice connection.

I don't undertand the exact mechanism here, but I share for those of you who may have had weird problems.

Reply to
RobertMacy
Loading thread data ...

Had a siilar problem years ago. They used yto have to come and change my pa ir down the street as it had flooded plenty of times annd every tie it rain d this would hapen. Only get one short ring and then nothing.

Whatevr corrosion was in there was obviously not linear. the lower voltages in off hok and tip were fine, but when that ring voltage came along it wpo uld tip and tell the coputer the phione had been picked up, but in this cas e didn;t stay shortd long enough to keep the call and not only did we not g t the call, we didn't even gt the CID so we could call people back. The lin e was also quite noisy.

I had had enough and basically whneever it hapened again I just told them t o let me talk to a supervisor or someone who really knows what they're doig . there was no more disconnect the interface box and all that shit, they KN EW the trunk line was compromised. I told them not to even bother coming to the house, just go down on Denison avenus and change out pair again. Once they started cooperating it went very smooth. Of course a history of all th is was on record which did help.

Sometimes these companies have people who answer the phone scripted and the y can't do anything, so juust cut to the chase, tell them you want someone higher on the food chain.

I remember AOL and their bullshit like this. After while I just told them r ight off the bat that I am an advanced user. I have laready tried the first five thigs they were going to say and I checksd that and got that and all that.

Companies also ant that money and that is the way it is set up. It used to be you could trust them but no more. Have your shit together before you eve n call them. I think that apllies to any tech support anymore.

Another interesting thing about AOL, one tie I couldn't gt on and it turned out my passwords were invalid. I called and they said I had been hacked so they would give e some temp passwords to use, and to change them at mya ea rliest convienience. ALL SEVEN PASSWORDS that had never ever been stored on my PC. Ever, I simply do not do that.

I said "So what you're saying is that YOU got hacked". After a sall delay t he reply came in the affirmative.

Moral of the story - they will never take the blame unless they absolutely have to. I wonder how many copies of McJunkffes and Noruselesston they sold because people thought they had been hacked when they hadn't.

Reply to
jurb6006

On the route between my landline and exchange is a railway bridge that carries phone lines. About 2 years ago they "lifted" it to allow larger container trains through. That or coincidence of crackly line, bad ring condition, at that time and after. Whenever it occured I dialled the

17070 UK BT test number to select ring back and that ring current always seemed to (temporarily ) cure the problem. Reading this reminded me no problems for some months or the last year perhaps
Reply to
N_Cook

s.

This reminds me of a strange service call I had when I worked as a Bell Sys tem repair technician. It was a rural area and the customer complained that none of her phones would ring, but that she knew somebody was calling when ever her dog howled. Sounded crazy to me, but it turns out that she was on a party line which requires a good earth ground on the third (yellow) wire for the ringers. Well, the unlucky dog was chained to a poorly grounded wat er pipe which also held the ground clamp and wire for the telephone protect or. Whenever she got a call the poor dog got a 90VAC jolt! That's one of th e reasons the telcos quit grounding to water pipes in favor of the electric al power neutral.

Reply to
junebug1701

The reason that they switched was that the NEC required them to. Some fools couldn't tell the difference between a water and a gas pipe.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to 
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Cobwebs that get wet at either the pole junction or internal to the house.

The inside problems I found.

But, we were having issues where the phone would cut out when it rained. DSL was worse, but would connect.

One of the techs actually came back and said "Here was your problem", and brought back a piece of wire with some of the insulation chewed. He said, while I was at it, I removed about 1000' from your telco line.

Generally, by the time the tech came out, the problem would go away. e.g. It dried out.

Reply to
Ron D.

Years ago I lived in a neighborhood with ground water problems. The developement had been built on a wetland. After the lots were graded many homes, mine included, only had about 6 inches of soil sitting on hardpan. The development ran downhill so the lots and streets were stepped. Anyway, one day my phone service got really noisy and later that day I was out in the front yard and noticed water coming out from under the cover of the pedestal mounted phone box. I called the phone company and was told that phones don't use water and so there couldn't be water coming out of the box. I insisted on a service call and was told I'd be billed if it wasn't the phone box spurting water. When the guy came out to fix the problem he was flabbergasted. He had never seen anything like it. The temporary solution was to remove a cover on the pedestal so the water poured out before the box. Later that year all the phone lines on my street were re-done and a new box installed up the street. Eric

Reply to
etpm

(US practice.)

You mean the service "ground", not the neutral.

Phone techs had better not be connecting anything inside the service panel.

A convenient point of connection is the wire to the earthing electrodes, but it is not the only place the connection can be made.

Recent services have an "intersystem bonding termination" where phone and coax entry ground connections must be made.

The NEC did not require them to.

Water pipes (10 or more ft of metal in contact with the earth) must still be used as one of the power system earthing electrodes.

That metal water pipe can still be used as the ground for phone entry protectors (if there is no intersystem bonding termination). In the past the connection could be anywhere. Now it must be within the first 5 ft inside the building. That is the same place the connection must now be made for the water pipe as an earthing electrode.

Gas pipes are grounded at locations like furnaces.

Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) is often used for gas piping inside a building because it is flexible. There have been fires and explosions, and I think all manufacturers now require the stuff to be connected to the earthing system near the building entry. (There have been fires where the stuff was grounded to manufacturer's specs. An electrical inspector recommended electricians not make the ground connection, then they will not be involved in the lawsuit. I would not use CSST.)

Reply to
bud--

Yes, I meant ground. I am in so much pain that I wake up screaming, so I don't get much sleep anymore. I don't spot some mistakes before I hit send. :(

Try to find metal water pipes in most of Florida. Mine stops at the tank on the well. That is over 100 feet from where the phone or CATV drops are.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to 
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

"Neural" was actually jurb, not you.

Reply to
bud--

national news.

within 95%

to be

connection

Bell System repair technician. It was a rural area and the customer complained that none of her phones would ring, but that she knew somebody was calling whenever her dog howled. Sounded crazy to me, but it turns out that she was on a party line which requires a good earth ground on the third (yellow) wire for the ringers. Well, the unlucky dog was chained to a poorly grounded water pipe which also held the ground clamp and wire for the telephone protector. Whenever she got a call the poor dog got a 90VAC jolt! That's one of the reasons the telcos quit grounding to water pipes in favor of the electrical power neutral.

panel.

Some

Reply to
josephkk

national news.

within 95%

to be

connection

Bell System repair technician. It was a rural area and the customer complained that none of her phones would ring, but that she knew somebody was calling whenever her dog howled. Sounded crazy to me, but it turns out that she was on a party line which requires a good earth ground on the third (yellow) wire for the ringers. Well, the unlucky dog was chained to a poorly grounded water pipe which also held the ground clamp and wire for the telephone protector. Whenever she got a call the poor dog got a 90VAC jolt! That's one of the reasons the telcos quit grounding to water pipes in favor of the electrical power neutral.

panel.

Some

I don't know what version of NFPA 70 (NEC) you are talking about; but recent editions of the NEC requires a grounding electrode (rod) with at least 10 feet in direct earth contact; plus bonding to water pipe and gas pipe when metallic. Also bonding to the structural steel if there is significant steel above ground. Enforcing article 250 et seq. has been part of my job for the past 8 years.

Reply to
josephkk

There may be requirements other than the NEC where you are working.

The NEC requirements are:

- Power earthing may have one or many electrodes that are connected together as an earthing system (250.50).

- A metal water service pipe MUST be used as one of the earthing electrodes. It has been so since time began. Exact requirements have changed over time as more water services use plastic pipe. The requirement for many years is that a metal water service pipe in contact with the earth for 10 ft MUST be used as an earthing electrode. (250.50,

250.52)

- If the water service pipe is NOT metal-10ft, then the interior metal water pipe must be "bonded" to the power ground system (250.104-A). The connection as an earthing electrode (above) is more stringent than "bonding".

- Since a metal water service may be replaced by plastic, a "supplemental" electrode has been required for many years. Many kinds of electrode can be used (250.53-D). Often it has been a ground rod because they are easy to install.

- Gas piping must be "bonded" to the building ground system. The size of the bonding wire is determined by the current rating of the circuit that is likely to energize the pipe. In a house this is likely the feed circuit for a furnace, or similar device. "The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means." (250.104-B)

- Gas service pipe may not be used as an earthing electrode.

- Structural steel may be required to be used as an earthing electrode (250.50, 250.52). Else it is required to be "bonded" (250.104-C). Connection as an earthing electrode is more stringent than "bonding".

- For new construction, if there is a concrete foundation or footing, a "concrete encased electrode" is required (250.50, 250.52) These are commonly called a "Ufer" ground. They are a good electrode (far better than a ground rod) and are used as the "supplementary" electrode for a water service pipe where both are present.

- Ground rods are required to be used as an earthing electrode "where present". They won't be present unless someone installs one. Installing one is not required. (250.50) Rods are 8 ft min, and the types used are 5/8" diameter. They must have a resistance to earth of 25 ohms or less, or else 2 can be used and there is no requirement (250.53-A-2).

Ground rods are among the worst earthing electrodes. If you connect a

120V circuit to a code compliant 25 ohm rod will it blow a 15A fuse?

If the only earthing electrode is a ground rod (which is compliant is some places), and the rod has a near miraculous resistance to earth of

10 ohms, and there is a surge to earth of 3,000A, the potential of the building "ground" is 30,000V above 'absolute' earth potential. In general, 70% of the voltage drop away from the rod is in the first 3 ft. Over 3 ft from the rod is at least 21,000V from the building "ground" system. If you have a rooftop TV antenna that is earthed only to a separate rod the coax will be over 21,000V from the power "ground". You may also get that on a metal gas service pipe, which is why very thin-walled CSST can be a problem.

What I wrote is consistent with NEC requirements. Installing earthing systems has been part of my job for the past ...um... lots of years.

Reply to
bud--

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.