Ham Radio license

Unlikely. For what reason though ? If you declare sovereignty then you are not beholden to licensing laws within reason, that is as long as you harm n oone. If you are a normal citizen then it really doesn't matter, there is n o way to hide if they want you. Itis a simple matter of triangulation.

I am not sure about if you remove yourself from social security, which is p ossible despite popular belief, and even misinformation on their own websit e and via their representatives. You then face troubles opening any new ban k accounts and a few other things. And don't even register to vote if you c onsider yourself apart from the corporate entity.

Removing yourself from corporatehood is not easy and not recommended for ev eryone. What's more you get none of your moneys back that you paid in, like SS even though you forfeit your right to collect, and federal income taxes . And you are still a state Citizen. That is "State" citizen.

These are complex issues and it is very difficult to obtain good informati on these days. There are too many quacks that sell you their plan that will get you thrown in jail and marked as a possible threat. Not worth it for m ost people.

If you remain a citizen of the corporate United States rather than a Citize n of the united states you must give up that social security number wheneve r they ask for it, if you have one. Remaining a corporate citizen without o n is almost impossible, if not outright impossible.

And why not give it up ? They probably have it anyway, or will.

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in :

Your comments are appropriate, where the government has no business associating your pension plan with the Ham Radio License.

What does a Ham Radio License have to do with my pension plan anyway?

It's just another case of government abuse of power. a. They put a law in place for reason X. b. Then they abuse their own laws for reason Y.

So the use of the social security number for anything other than the pension plan is a clear abuse of the original intent of the law that was passed.

They passed the law with duplicity.

So I would prefer to give them my real name, my real address, my real phone number, my real birth date, my real height and weight, etc., but what on earth does a Ham Radio License have to do with my pension plan?

It's a privacy violation that violates the intent of the law.

--
Yes, I know it's "voluntary" to give anyone the SSN.

Just do it and get over yourself.

--
"I am a river to my people." 
Jeff-1.0 
WA6FWi 
http:foxsmercantile.com

If you're a US resident then who cares, the government already has your SSN, they're the ones who gave it to you!

If you're a foreign operator who wants to be licensed to operate in the US then clearly a US SSN is not a requirement, you probably have to send them a birth certificate and proof of citizenship of some type and they send you an FRN.

I agree, but they do it all the time. And the people don't care just like the boiling frog.

No. I order to get an FCC license of any type, you need to first get an FRN number. To obtain an FRN number from the ULS section of CORES, you need to give the FCC your TIN, which for individuals is your SSN: "Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN). For individuals this is a Social Security Number and for businesses this is an Employer Identification Number."

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

S then clearly a US SSN is not a requirement,"

Actually it might just work to not claim US citizenship, but there may be o ther ramifications.

The reason I do not recommend it is that the process by which you gain cert ain legal status which includes that of a non-taxpayer is based on accusing them of fraud in a way, and the fact that they cannot answer the charge is one of the key points.

Part of that is that whatever you have done and signed into thus far was be cause you were unaware of this fraud. To even hint at it now may well precl ude your ever being able to complete the process because at a latter date t hey can claim that you knew and have volunteered since. That voids the whol e thing.

And people who value privacy are not the type to burn such a bridge, so I r ecommend just giving them the number. Don't even use TDC. (TDC means threat , duress, coercion) That is more aptly used when forced to sign something o r else suffer some consequence, like not getting a driver's license or some thing like that, but the OP does not intend to refuse to sign and agree to be bound by the associated regulations, he wants to omit a piece of informa tion.

This is tricky, I don't claim to know all about it but I know enough for ex ample to pull it off myself. But others have different situations and may r equire a different approach.

The people I learn about this from had hired an ex-Harvard law professor to p tutor them, and he could never have given that information out in his cap acity as an active member of the bar. Once retired it is a different story.

Employer Identification Number." "

Hmm, he could hire himself. Maybe, I would have to look into it but quite h onestly I had had enough legal in my life plus I have a pro se case coming up. That is plenty.

However that is information that you can ask a lawyer. It would not put him in jeopardy to tell. Main thing is, can a business get an FCC license ? Mo st likely. What are any base taxes involved even if there is no pay involve d ? Like getting a vendor's license, you get one and never send in any mone y they might start asking questions.

I would ask a lawyer about the EIN. There is also a possibility the informa tion is online somewhere, just watch those URLS, you want an EDU or GOV at the end. (and even that is not infallible, but it is ammo incase TSHTF)

Well, now you have me waiting for more info! Mikek

The EIN is for commercial 2-way radio business licenses. Except for radio club licenses, all US ham licenses are issued to individuals.

"Who Can Lawfully Request My Social Security Number?"

Free legal advice:

Yes, in a communications service appropriate for being operated by a business. Ham radio is by definition NOT a business. Nice try.

Totally unlikely.

No, because you cannot legally charge for using ham radio services. There was quite a discussion going on about 20 years ago over whether a ham radio operator could order a pizza via an autopatch. The decision is more complexicated than I want to discuss.

If you get a business license, and furiously deduct everything in sight on your taxes, but cannot demonstrate any income, the IRS considers your activities to be a hobby, not a business. Businesses are expected to separate their customers from their money, which a hobby fails to do.

I can see that you've never dealt with a lawyer. Asking a lawyer for advice is an exercise in futility. You never get a definitive yes or no answer. Instead, you get multiple possibilities, interpretations, and actions, leaving you to flip a coin as to which action is the correct one. If it later appears that your decision was not optimum or correct, it's your fault, not the lawyers.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Businesses can get certain types of FCC licenses.

As I understand it, no business can get a ham license, because the use of amateur radio for commercial purposes is forbidden. You have to be an individual person, who can (in person) take and pass the test(s) required for whatever amateur radio license grade you're going for.

There is such a thing as an amateur club-station license, but each club requires at least four members, officers, and there has to be an individually-licensed ham who acts as "trustee" for the station and takes legal responsibility for its operation. If you don't have your own ham license, you can only use a club station if there's a licensed ham present to act as a "control operator", taking responsibility for proper operation and (if necessary) "taking the keys away from you" if you do it wrong.

[And, tangentially... I haven't yet heard of a case in which the "Sovereign citizen" arguments have actually won out in court. If a "sovereign citizen" refuses to pay taxes, or commits a Federal crime and is charged for it, and uses the "sovereign citizen" arguments as a defense... quite consistently, they lose... the courts reject these arguments as "frivolous" or "made up".

Granted, quite a few people seem to be "flying under the radar", e.g. failing to file/pay Federal income taxes on the grounds of being "sovereign citizens" or "state citizens". Some get away with this for years. However, if/when audited or charged, they don't do well in court.

It's not an approach I recommend. You're free to dislike the Federal government all you like, but _ignoring_ it isn't wise, especially if you're doing so on the basis of legal arguments that the IRS and courts have been consistently rejecting for decades, based on legal precedents which reach back all the way to The Federalist Papers.]

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in :

It's never a case of "you can't beat city hall" but if you fight, then they change their ways - but a lot of people have to do the fighting.

It's the American way to fight for your right to privacy.

For example, it used to be that your medical insurance was your ssn and then Texas passed a law and now you don't have to have your medical insurance tied to your pension plan.

The Jews in Germany didn't have that concept of fighting for their rights, and six million of them died because of it. Had six million people fought, like a few thousand did in Warsaw while Russia looked on watching in glee with the Lublick government in tow, they would have almost outnumbered the German army.

You don't fight for your rights, you lose them. Ask the Jews if you think nobody wants to take away your rights.

Anyway, I found out how to do it. I will write up a tutorial so that anyone else can do it too.

That's the Usenet way to give back for your free advice.

Am Thu, 05 Apr 2018 08:13:34 -0700, schrieb Jeff Liebermann:

Jeff is right about lawyers, but wrong about the FRN, but not completely so!

It's technical, with nuance, but I was on the phone with the FCC today for almost an hour, and the end result is that you *can* get the Ham Radio License (Technicians Class) without giving them a SSN.

After noting that the question is not in the FCC Ham Radio FAQ

I called the FCC today at 202-418-4120 & was bounced all over the FCC:

So this is a summary, which is simpler than what actually happened.

Starting here (877-480-3201), you hit x4 to get the FRN department who knows about FRN numbers but not licensing.

Starting here (877-480-3201), you hit x2 to get the ULS department who knows about licensing but not about FRN numbers.

Bouncing back and forth between them, you end up finding out:

- You can tell the FCC that you don't have a SSN (don't ask, don't tell)

- Or, you can use the last 4 digits & get a "Restricted Use FRN"

- Or, you can use zero digits & get a "Special Use FRN" (form 323).

The latter two really don't apply to individuals, but they will "probably" work. I have a few FRNs already, as the FRN guy walked me through the whole process, where I advise you have, ahead of time, this written down:

1. You must give them a real email address (they send a verification note).
2. You can register for as many FRNs as you want with that email address.
3. The password is a bitch (no fewer than 12 characters, no more than 15 characters, a number, both cases, & a special character)
4. Best best is to register for a "regular" FRN & don't give them the SSN

Here are the steps: A. Go to the FCC web site

B. On the top blue bar, press the "Licensing & Databases" tab C. On the left side, click the "FCC Registration System (CORES)" link D. On the right hand side, click "Register and update Username Account" E. On the right hand side, click to create a new account F. Check your email for the verification mail & click the verification link G. Now go back to step C/D to "Create, update and associate FRN(s)" H. When you log in, you'll end up in your "user home" I. Click on the "Register New FRN" link J. It's ok to tell the truth here that you're an individual in the USA K. When you hit the "continue" button, now you have to decide Do you want a "restricted use FRN" (i.e., only requires 4 SSN digits)

Ragnusen Ultred wrote in :

Excellent! Thanks!

I thought about getting a ham license at one point and even as a US citizen it all just seemed like a huge hassle for not much reward. If I'd been born in the 50s or 60s I probably would've gotten into it, but I was born in the dying days of disco instead.

Instead of buying a secondhand shortwave radio I bought a secondhand

2400 bps modem. Mom and Dad humored me but thought this whole "computers talking to each other" thing was just a weird fad, like CB radio. Oh well...

It took me all summer to save up for that little external modem and an extra one megabyte stick of RAM, that shit was expensive in 1992. Less than two years later I took home a 9600 bps modem sitting in my high school's trash bin.

Nice job

Considering that you're the same name shifting troll that posts endless threads about brake shoes, Apple batteries, smoke machines, front end alignment and on and on and on...

I'm going dismiss what you just posted as more of your long rambling bullshit.

--
"I am a river to my people." 
Jeff-1.0 
WA6FWi 
http:foxsmercantile.com

I can't think of anyone's opinions and advice I respect more than yours, bu t...

amateur radio for commercial purposes is forbidden. "

That makes sense. I have wondered about businesses owning vehicles, is ther e a requirement there for at least one person to be in control and put his name on the line, or can it be just in a company name. Same with property. These are things I never found out because I never had any reason to.

"Sovereign citizen" arguments have actually won out in court."

That is not how it's done. Being sovereign has very little meaning, when yo u make well into six figures, being a non-taxpayer does have meaning. there is a specific process, and then you can't engage in certain contracts with the government. In fact you can't even sign a W-4 so you will forever be s elf employed or find an employer who will operate in a way that facilitates your wishes in the matter. I have found employers who simply pay cash so i t is a moot point then anyway. No paper trail, nothing happens. Also when y ou do this you don't just not file a 1040, you CAN'T file a 1040 because it is one of the types of contracts with the government which blows the whole thing, and it only works once. In act, you can't be audited if you don't f ile. Also, the people who beat them did not file, if you file you lose. Whe n you sign your name at the bottom it is not s receipt, it is a contract an d an acknowledgement of jurisdiction to a private corporation, the IRS. Tho ugh chartered by the government they are incorporated just like General Mot ors, no better no worse. Same with the Federal Reserve. When you open a ban k account you are entering into a contract with them. In each of those case s the contract is one in which they can change the terms for both parties, you and them at will and you cannot. It is technically repugnant to the com mon law but since you have the "constitutional" right to sign into it, it f lies.

The other thing about tax court, you won't hear about the people who beat t hem, they do not like to publicize it. That is the same with any court, if you make them fear public scrutiny on anything it works in your favor. In s ome cases you file nearly all your evidence in the form of affidavits to th e clerk of courts so that it is a matter of public record even if the judge has it stricken from the record of the proceedings.

And you're right, a lawyer will not tell you these things. That is unless y ou pick the right lawyer. That is not the easiest thing to do. For somethin g like a DUI for example when you really are actually guilty, you want one who CAN litigate but you don't want him TO litigate. oyu want one who knows the judge and prosecutor and can get the thing moved into chambers out of the busybodies are MADD etc. but if you cause actual injuries and those peo ple are not satisfied they can make it impossible.

Other matter are totally different story. you can actually defend yourself better than a lawyer because he has a few things in that oath with which yo u do not have to abide. That is if you know what you're doing, and nobody g oes to law school just top defend themselves and without that license they will not be defending anyone else. Of course telling you anything will cost money because it either makes them money or it doesn't. If you don't hire them you can pay for their time and that creates privilege. But you still h ave to find the right one(s). If you thought finding a good pizza place was hard...

The techniques you use in a tax court, which is a civil court with a few ex traordinary powers, are different than those used for a regular tort case o r a criminal case. My friends hired an ex-law professor from Harvard to tut or them, and they beat the IRS. he wasn't worried about his oath anymore. H e also help one totally wreck them in a criminal trial.

Let's put it this way, if you get caught selling weed (marked money and all ) and they find your (expensive I personally know...) grow room, weapons an d all kind of shit, what do you expect ? Well with a lawyer he lost, but op erating pro se he won the appeal. But that should have happened the first t ime because unbeknownst to most people, if you win the appeal you are still convicted. Actually the same is true of a presidential pardon.

I agree, it is not for everybody. But there are some who it does benefit, a nd that is not publicized.

The instructions for the process look like a phone book.