Hi-Tech Software bought by Microchip - no more other compilers

"Walter Banks" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@bytecraft.com...

Nevertheless I know at least one small company that moved from PIC to Atmel because of the good, free GNU compiler.

petrus bitbyter

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petrus bitbyter
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| | Evidence? | | Leon |

Only a little bit: Myself. I've done some small PIC projects lately using PICs that can (best) be programmed in assembler. Microchips tools for this are good. Good enough for me that is. The last larger project that required a C-compiler I used HI-tech. But the next larger project I'll go Atmel. I know, nobody will care or even notice. But what if some thousends of others will do the same?

petrus bitbyter

Reply to
petrus bitbyter

I normally design using PICs, I've been using them since at least

1990. I've had the Byte Craft compiler and now use the Hi-Tech compilers and the cost has not been an issue until recently.

One of my customers wants to take over updating the code for his products. The free complier is no good because the PIC size has been chosen for the pro compiler. He is not keen to buy the compilers for the volume he uses. Currently I'm disabling the compiler my end so he can activate a copy at his end and then he disables so I can reactivate to use it here.

Atmel with free software is looking good for new designs.

Reply to
Raveninghorde

I think that it is a good thing as well. Get the technology right then do a clean implementation. The chip companies don't have a significant advantage by being used in high volume prototypes

w..

Reply to
Walter Banks

One possible advantage to PICs is the availability of (most? all?) parts with OTP PROM instead of flash (the "C" parts versus the "F" series). For something that may need to just work, for decades, in high ambient conditions such as the controller on an outside plant HVAC unit, that could be desirable insurance.

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Rich Webb     Norfolk, VA
Reply to
Rich Webb

el

It is not JUST the compiler that designers look at, it is the whole development and debug flow as well.

The fastest way to get a (new) device onto a designers desk, is to offer a USB-Stick (or slightly larger) type very low cost, ie a 'Slicon datasheet' with USB debug. If that toolkit also has a nice set of hackable examples, then that helps as well.

Microcontroller silicon is getting cheaper so quickly, that details like compiler differences will be lost in the timelines.

Most of our recent device-selections were driven by peripherals, not by tools, (and not by core).

example: in one selection, Microchip PIC32 actually made the shortlist, (surprised me ;) until the fine print revealed that TxCK was only available on the bigger package. Bummer... Pity, as their EVK was affordable, _and_ had a proper debug pathway.

Some more expensive systems are only partial, and beware lines like this in the Guides : ["Optionally, if you have a SAM-ICE=99, instructions are also given about how to debug the code."] - and that Sam-ice is twice the price of the whole PIC32 evk !? (and the SAM3U EVK is way more complex than we need too, which bumps the price to $200+$100 vs $55...) NXP parts DO have the right peripherals in the right package mix, so now we trawl this :

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u.tools.pdf

Reply to
-jg

One reason people will not go Atmel is the relatively low probability of being able to buy the same chip in two years time (especially with them looking financially weak at the moment).

Microchip still sell chips for designs I did 15 years ago.

Atmel's 'Not recommended for new designs' means go redesign your product because we are not making them anymore.

Reply to
nospam

Are you grazy? It takes me a day to get into a new platform and start working with it. Period. Last time I had to do a PIC design. The days work included writing a wrapper so PICC could be invoked like it is GCC from Eclipse.

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Reply to
Nico Coesel

The problem with commercial tools is that each MCU has a different crappy IDE and a different toolchain. That is why the combination Eclipse, GCC en GDB is so powerful. You learn the tools once and can apply that knowledge to any target. Besides, Eclipse beats most IDEs hands down.

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Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
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Reply to
Nico Coesel

Not all $$ are created equal.

Cost and price being completely different things, of course.

Reply to
krw

Ten years back, I justified a laptop based on the node-locked tools I had to run. I needed to work in the lab as well as my office and a laptop was a lot cheaper than another $80K for another seat (high end FPGA stuff). Now I wouldn't consider buying any node-locked software. Indeed I won't buy any FPGA development software, because I don't need to.

Having bad tools is a silly strategy.

Reply to
krw

Because they refuse to adequately fund something that doesn't generate profit/revenue. The counters of beans refuse to see that you have to give bait away to catch fish.

Yet it's SOP.

Reply to
krw

Classic attitude of a company just about to go bust.

Reply to
krw

IAR has a decent commercial tool chain where many processors use the same IDE. I've only used it for the ARM, but the IDE and debugging facilities seem OK to me. YMMV.

Mark Borgerson

Reply to
Mark Borgerson

Eh... You do know that in the very recent past it looked as if Microchip was going to buy Atmel, right?

Reply to
larwe

Microchips own branded compiled is based on GCC and is free for most series, e.g 18, 24, 32 Some speed/size optimisation limits may apply on the free student version, but no code size limits etc, so close enough to free for many uses.

Dave.

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Reply to
David L. Jones

There's a difference between "start working with" and "up to speed". A big difference.

Reply to
Nobody

And this is relevent how?

Reply to
krw

Only the 16-bit (PIC24/30/33) and 32-bit (PIC32) compilers are gcc-based. It wouldn't be practical to port gcc to the 8-bit families (10/12/16/18), they're just too far from the kind of architecture for which gcc was designed.

Reply to
Nobody

But small jobs lead to big jobs. Hobbies lead to small jobs. If you really want to sell chips, win the hearts and minds of the hobbyists and students.

Reply to
MC

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