Did Intel screw up big time by selling its embedded processors?

(StrongARM, XScale) to Marvell. The idea was that future devices would be more and more like PC's and that these should therefore have a 'real' Intel x86 processor. Now, several years later, it seems like Intel made the wrong decision and is paying dearly for it. None of the newest mobile phones use an Intel processor, and ARM continues its reign there, as the Intel embedded devices.

an Intel processor instead of ARM. But the x86 is totally unsuitable for battery powered handheld devices, and laptops using Intel processors rarely work more than 2 hours if they are used under normal office working conditions.

OEM's to use Intel processors in their devices. Wrong!! It looks they are going to lose marketshare and become also-rans in the new netbook segment. Already, some netbooks are popping up which use non-Intel Chinese MIPS processors and Intel's foray into the embedded market is bound to falter.

processors?

Nope. If you read that carefully, they are attacking the market from two different directions. Intel is Morphing the PC into something much more mobile, and the Phones are morphing into Web-Browsing, video playing systems.

Intel's pathway give you the phone second, it comes almost for free, whilst the other direction start as a phone, and morph towards something more. Of course, the Elephant in the room, NOT mentioned at all, is Power and battery life.

Keep in mind, the processors we know about in the public domain, are not the same as what intel is showing the phone and ultra-portable designers for 2009 design wins. By all reports, Intel's Atom is doing very well.

eg: this claim ["The overall processor market rose 14 per cent during the third quarter, and 15.4 per cent on the year, to reach a value of $8.3bn (£5.25bn). Much of this growth was down to strong demand for Intel's Atom processor which registered shipment growth of nearly nine per cent. "Not considering the effects of Atom, the overall market still grew at a decent pace in the third quarter," ]

Notice that Apple changed from PowerPCB to Intel CPUs because of Intel's R&D muscle and roadmap. - and managed that transistion surprisingly well.

Expect Apple to have an ultra-portable product with an intel CPU.

Plenty of room for both CPUs and differing applications morphs.

-jg

Absolutamente! You just mentioned the very reason why I and lots of other people hold their wallets closed when it comes to "mobility". A device that cannot rival the old Casio portable "type writers" that could run weeks on a few AA cells just ain't worth it IMHO.

[...]

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Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I'm finding myself tempting by an Eee PC at the moment, but battery life is the one thing holding me back. For all its limitations my

10 year old Newton's 30 hour battery life means that it is genuinelly mobile. Of course, if the batteries do happen to run out when you are out and about you simply pick up a set of AA alkaline cells from pretty much any newsagent or filling station - something you lose out on when it seems every mobile device out there has its own proprietrary rechargable battery.

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Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org

Same here. I would have bought one a long time ago but the battery runtime is paltry. I do not see any benefit versus a low-end Dell where there always seems to be some $399 deal.

That's the other issue I'll never understand. You can get nice 2600mAh NiMH, even some with low self-discharge. But no, everyone must have their own variety. I bet nobody in those companies ever tries to figure out how much in sales that is costing them.

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Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I also keep on wondering why so many market segments ignore those amazing 2.6 Ah NiMH cells available nowadays. The camera market seems to have enforced them on the industry; some of the top-class zoom cameras (I just watch only that segment) tried to go vendor specific Liion at a moment but went back to AA cells. I guess because being unable to replace your camera is understood as unacceptable by at least one vendor and the rest have followed the market success.

Didi

------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments

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Original message:

There are reasons for that:

1. The unique accessories are very profitable.
2. If you allow for the generic batteries, great many idiots will screw up and will be complaining, trying to sue, or just bothering the customer support.

Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

Not if you lose sales because of it. For example, when in the market for a digital camera all models with proprietary batteries were a clear no-no for me, no deal. I didn't even look at those.

It is the same with water filtration, coffee makers, other technical equipment. When a manufacturer chose a proprietary solution where it clearly was not necessary I become suspicious and usually do not buy that product or, worse for them, advise others not to buy it.

Got to have reverse polarity protection. Nikon seems to have mastered that issue ;-)

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Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

People like you or me are not the "representative buyers" in the most of cases. Consumer stuff is made mainly for little boys and girls from 18 to 25 y.o. who are not concerned at all.

If there is more then one battery, get ready for all possible combinations :)

That's an extra FET plus few other components. Takes the board space and expensive, too :)

VLV

True, but make that 12-25. It is unbelievable how much buying power kids under 18 have these days. Courtesy of their parents who are often happily racking up credit card debt, big time.

I've done many designs for battery-operated gear. You can insert the AA cells any which way you want. If you get it right the units will work, if you have one of more inverted they will not work but also not die.

Or a diode ;-)

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Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

d

Or a diode plus a fuse if you cannot afford the voltage drop :-).

Didi

------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments

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Original message:

Unless the fuse is a user replaceable item, it still means sending it in for repair.

And if it is replaceable, some fool will short it out.

What about a diode and a loud noise maker of some kind? :-)

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ArarghMail811 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html

How about a self resetting thermal fuse? Cost and size might be an issue.

Dito :-)

Nope. Diode in parallel and a polifuse :-)

VLV

Having developed some equipment for use by IQ-zero's I know that the simplest reverse polarity protection is often a bridge rectifier (then the equipment doesn't care about battery polarity). I also included supply over-voltage protection as well. Board real-estate investment is sometimes worth it to make the product dependable.

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Paul E. Bennett...............

It can also be a liability - look at the flak Apple have taken over ipod batteries. I don't really think it's warranted - it seems to me that it's simply that people don't appreciate rechargeables wear out - but it creates a negative perception of the brand in any case. That's without even mentioning the various fire hazard laptop battery issues over the last couple of years, although laptops probably deserve their own batteries given the higher power demands compared to a lot of portable equipment.

I think most consumers have got to grips with generic batteries given the amount of devices that use them. Mass produced stuff with custom moulded cases can easily arrange things so that it is impossible to insert each cell with reversed polarity - only accommodate the bump on the +ve cap at one end of the recess. If circumstances don't permit that, a reverse polarity protection circuit is what? One transistor and one resistor at a cost of pennies and with negligible voltage drop.

When pandering to the idiots, it often seems that it is the proprietary batteries that cause problems. By definition, each battery is different and it often isn't overly clear how each particular style is supposed to clip or slide into position.

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Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org

Since that involves a loss of about 1.4 V (using silicon diodes) it requires a circuit that can operate on very low power, when the power is limited to a single AA cell. :-)

Please don't remove attributes for quoted material. I think I have restored them, hopefully without error.

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 [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net) 
 [page]: 

[...]

You currently don't get both (low self-discharge _and_

2700mA) in one AA NiMH battery

How do you charge NiMH packs as fast as possible from any (maybe unknown) state, with different amounts of available power (USB port or charger), at any temperature?

If you managed this, we can speak about weight and size.

In the mean, I'm really happy with my Li*-powered mobile devices.

Oliver

P.S.: There _are_ bad trends in battery technology, but that's not using Li*.

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Oliver Betz, Munich
despammed.com might be broken, use Reply-To:

Most people don't care, by the time the battery goes dead the gadget has been long since out of fashion. Or do you really think a iPhone will impress anyone in two years from now?

The actual cells (typically 18650) used in the battery pack are often exactly the same. But if your laptop battery dies after 3 or 4 years of use you might be more tempted to buy a new laptop; a replacement battery pack will be surprisingly expensive.

Another reason for using custom batteries is the form factor of device.

Ok, you are right, Eneloop batteries are presently at 2000mAh. Good enough :-)

Even the higher mAh Panasonic HHR (NiMH) I am using here have a surprisingly low self-discharge.

Cheaper chargers require 2h or more. However, at church we use a more elaborate charge station from Ansmann in Germany. It is uC controlled and can take batteries at any stage, but only standard sizes such as AA, C, D and 9V. There is only a little more than an hour between worship services and that works. Very successful since more than three years. In fact we are still using the first set of batteries. Some are now way past the 1000 cycle spec and still like new. Amazing.

Weight is going to be higher, of course.

Meantime, I am very happy with devices powered by standard cells such as the Nikon camera here. And the Sennheiser wireless mikes at church. And the wands for the hearing-impaired. And my EMC pre-amp. And ...

Sure, but what are you going to do if you are at the bottom of the Zugspitze and your batteries run out? Or at a client and the low-battery light on your EMC preamp comes on? I can just go to the next kiosk stand and buy a few :-)

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Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/