Tour of JLCPCB PCB factory

CooL ! Thanks !

So, how many are going to be affected by PCB tariffs ? Aren't those on the "list" ? As well as electrolytic capacitors and other items...

boB

You missed the potentially big problems. Tariffs are collected at the port of entry, which means that everything imported, which is subject to the new tariffs, will need to go through customs channels. I don't think the customs service can handle the additional load and it's certain to slow things down to a crawl.

Also, the new tariffs will be ad valorem or "at value" which means they will be taxes at the value that customs things they are worth, not what you are paying. The idea is to keep imported parts prices higher than domestic parts prices to allow the few remaining domestic parts manufacturers to artificially compete.

Please note that the imposition of import tariffs has been known to start real wars.

Light reading:

Some graphs: Notice that consumer good are exempt from the new tariffs which suggests that the obvious defense is to NOT import raw materials or components that are or will be taxes, make your products overseas, and only import finished products. Not exactly what Trump wanted but unless something changes, that's exactly what I expect he will get.

Harley-Davidson is shifting production of some motorcycles out of the US to avoid retaliatory tariffs from the EU.

"This time it was trade wars after Harley was targeted by the European Commission as well as other quintessential US groups such as bourbon whiskey and Levi?s jeans in retaliation against Donald Trump?s levies on imported steel and aluminium. "As a result, the company announced it would shift production of Europe-bound motorcycles to factories outside the US to avoid paying EU tariffs."

key and

on imported steel and

ound

I'm not very worried about Hardly Davidson, but what about other items made in the US? Won't this make us *less* competitive in the world market by r aising our cost and selling prices or lowering company profits? While good for the US steel and aluminum industry, it would be added expense for ever yone else.

Alcoa used to have an aluminum refining plant in Frederick, MD years ago. They left when the power company stopped giving them a subsidy (not sure of the origin). They moved to Canada. Do you think they are going to move b ack? I doubt it. The tariff makes US manufacturing more profitable, but f or how long? This is a tariff that will likely not last long enough to amo rtize the cost of erecting a new plant.

Rick C.

Everyone except Trump sees that...

Aluminium plants travel the world looking for cheap energy deals or loopholes to get them. It apparently doesn't matter to them that they have to move every couple of years.

Also not the Youtube channel "State of Electronics" that has, besides a number of videos about the history of hobby electronics in Australia, a recent tour of Shenzhen by a group of "makers". They visit several factories and design offices.

Harley Davidson is the sacred cow of US manufacturing. In the past, most of its US customers loudly demanded that be totally US made. No self respecting biker would want to be seen riding a "rice burner". That worked nicely for justifying high prices until HD discovered that foreign sales were becoming an rapidly increasing market segment. Foreign buyers don't really care if it's made in the USA. So, HD built plants in Brazil and India for the foreign market. This increase in foreign sales is what is causing the "shift" in production.

The temptation to trash their domestic market by importing foreign made HD machines and parts is probably a constant source of irritation during board meetings. Nobody really knows if Americans will pay substantially more for US made HD machines, or if they will go for the lower priced imported versions. My guess(tm) is Americans will buy the cheapest.

I don't know how long foreign sales growth will continue for HD. In

It's paywalled.

This 4 year old article covers most of the issues at HD and Indian (Polaris). "How American is Harley Davidson?" It was written before the tariffs, so there's no mention of their potential effect on sales.

Notice that HD doesn't contribute much to Federal candidates. This year, it was all to Republicans, but in the past was to mostly for Democrats: (Click on "Party Split by Cycle") At about $5.6 billion in 2017 sales, HD is not contributing their "fair share" of contributions to politicians. I suspect that the Republicans have noticed the problem and will surely do something stupid to fix it.

I have used them. The PCB quality (I design mostly 4-layer boards) is OK, if you manage to push it to that stage. Unfortunately, the problems are centered around the pre-manufacturing audit phase. Then you deal with their "customer service", which would require Phil Allison's parlance to describe things exactly. Brainless is the gentlest of verbiage. For instance, they do not understand the "put on hold" state, your design is either travelling successfully through their internal pipeline or it is cancelled without asking. Like in an arcade game -- you have only one life. Something wrong: GAME OVER, "Hi Sir, so very very very sorry order again."

My last (and I DO mean last) order:

Game #1: GAME OVER, Hi Sir, we do not read the attached readme.txt I: But it is there only because your remarks section is so length-limited. Restart the order. JLC: Hi Sir, can not restart so very very very sorry order again."

Game #2: GAME OVER, Hi Sir , we do not make Tg140C , only Tg130 I: But Tg140 is the only option you allow to be selected in your instant quote calculator. JLC: Hi Sir , so very very very sorry for mistake my order again."

Game #3: GAME OVER, Hi Sir , you want goldfingers but there are no gold fingers in the gerbers so very very very sorry order again." I: I didn't select any gold plating, you are discussing with your own calculator again.

16 e-mails, 5 days and the boards are still not in the production. I told them to cancel all pending orders and close my account. The projects all went to ALLPCB and are being produced right now.

Avoid at any cost, they taught me that "cheap" is rarely the cheapest solution. ALLPCB is more expensive, but the customer service ladies they hire do have brains and know how to use them.

Best regards, Piotr

I always pony up for the best FR4 material available. It's just nicer to (re)work with. Lately, I've been very happy with the Tg170 material offered by wellpcb.com (another Chinese vendor), and their pricing is suspiciously awesome. My most recent order was 8 layers, 90x100 mm, 5/5 mils for $28/each in quantity 10. That would have cost about 5x as much at Sunstone in Oregon.

I hope the WellPCB quality/price point proves to be consistent over time, but it's hard to say how optimistic to be, especially with the misguided missile recently installed in the White House. Yes, I'm sure the Chinese fabricators are dumping boards below cost... and yes, being tired of being gouged to the point of blood loss by US-based board houses, I'm OK with that.

I've had good results from AllPCB.com as well but their silkscreen process isn't as good as WellPCB's, and that's been a personal pet peeve. It's hard to label a dense collection of 0402 parts with the line-width limits imposed by most PCB houses. WellPCB appears to be using a real silkscreen mask for prototype quantities instead of a dot-matrix printer.

AllPCB also doen't offer Tg170 or better FR4, as far as I can tell.

-- john, KE5FX

Thanks for this information!

Same with the Polish manufacturers, so +1. :-)

But they do via plugging for free. OTOH, their max. is 6 layers, at least in the online calculator, maybe with a manual quotation it's possible to go higher. It's good to have many options.

I like their support: I asked them to put their marking in an invisible place (under a resistor and an inductor, respectively). Just asked, it wasn't mandatory. Result: "put on hold, please kindly check attached production file, if there is no problem, we will arrange production today." Awesome!

Best regards, Piotr

Strange how many steps require manual handling of each individual board, at steps where it could have been automated.

Not only that, I suspect there is a lot of carpel tunnel in these jobs.

Rick C.

Same with Eurocircuits, seems to be the industrial standard: