SOLAR TRACKING SYSTEMS

Sorry, but I'm lacking in imagination tonite. What reflector geometry are you considering where the target does not at least partly shade the reflector? Are you perhaps thinking of a (Fresnel) lens?

Hell no. The 2:1 concentration is based on the limit of what can be done with ordinary monocrystaline solar cells and a reflector or lens. Any higher concentration will either reduce cell output from overheating, or produce some damage from the heat.

For a solar boiler, the diameter of the heat exchanger plumbing needs to be rather small so that it doesn't turn into a large bomb. The early railroad engine builders learned that and built engines that looked like they had a large cylinderical boiler, but were actually a maze of small diameter tubes. With a small tube, the solar boiler will have a rather high concentration reflector. Just look at the photos... big reflectors and small boilers:

Anecdote: Oct 5-10 this year was the "solar outage" period for users of geosynchronous satellites. That's when the sun gets directly behind the Clarke belt and ruins satellite reception for 5-10 minutes on each of these days. This year, it coincided with a local heat wave, that sent temperatures over 100F. The combination of heat from both sources trashed the LNBF's on two 3.1 meter dishes. The LNBF's recovered somewhat, but are intermittent. I replace one about 3 weeks ago, and am scheduled to replace the other next Weds. Yes, silicon devices do not like solar cooking which is what will happen with focused sunlight.

The majority are written by the winners. Still there are a fair number of books and blogs written about business disasters and failures. The alleged draw is that by understanding what caused them to fail, you won't repeat the same mistakes. The real reason is that people tend to feel better about their own apprehensions and uncertainties after reading about someone else's flop. It can't happen to me and such. I also read such books, but for a different reason. I'm interested in what motivated the principles to make such bad decisions. It's not the politics but the psychology that I find interesting. You don't need to dig too far before you notice that, like in a chess game, many of the moves and decisions are forced.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann
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How does that work? The geometry and orbital mechanics are not obvious.

Reply to
mike

No. The solar cells are at the bottom of the trough and it is pointed at the sun as best you can (more or less). It can be made as a fold flat to carry lightweight device eg. wilderness mobile phone charger. Some of them charge a battery and then you plug in the phone later.

There are designs of non imaging flux concentrator that by construction guarantee that every light ray entering the external aperture will pass through a much smaller region of space after a finite number of relfections. The simplest such design has the panel at the base of two parabolic mirrors arranged so that the focus of one is at the base of the other and arranged much like the trough above.

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These things come from HEP particle detectors but were first adopted by solar engineering projects in the 1970's OPEC induced oil crisis. At the moment moulded Fresnel lenses have the upper hand for compactness.

I built one in foil with a gain of ten and got a correspondingly larger output current from a toy PV cell of the sort found in calculators.

Unclear yet whether printable stable organic semiconductors will make thin film PV technology ubiquitous and dirt cheap or we will forever be stuck with highly refined silicon for this application.

TBH I never expected to see OLEDs get out of the lab or the organics they are based on get out of a researchers test tube.

Bad design then. The shape I agree is ugly but you can get modest gain fora relatively low additional cost compared to the active PV panel.

I agree. Pumped water storage is about the most easily realised with the ability to handle fairly hefty loads as either sink or source.

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Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

A couple of decent sized suns separated by enough space to have a Goldilocks zone and planets placed at the L4 & L5 Lagrange points where stable orbits in the fashion of the Trojan asteroids exist.

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If they have mastered the art of moving planets around to order they could even put one at the unstable L1 point between the two suns to get continuous daylight with (at least) one sun always above the horizon.

The trick would be in having suns heavy enough for stable Lagrangian orbits in the Goldilocks zone that will also live for at least 5bn years or so. Dying stars tend to sterilise their neighbourhood.

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Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

I was thinking about the target at the end of the reflector but to the side would work, too.

Right, so why the pipe? The panel would naturally be a plane (segment).

Reply to
krw

You could mount those Solyndra tubes vertically, so all the suns could hit them.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

Ok, a periscope derrangment (similar to a periscope antenna). That should work, but I can see a problem with getting even illumination across the entire target.

Reflective stainless steel sheet metal:

The obvious answer is that a pipe is easy, simple, cheap, and works well for a boiler. It won't work too well for solar electric (i.e. Solyndra) because only part part of the pipe is illuminated.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

That's just a matter of reflector shape. The optics is pretty well known, though it doesn't have to be anything like "optical quality".

How long does it hold its reflectivity (dirt, water spots, and all).

OK, but we were discussing a solar concentrator and you seemed to be stuck on a small pipe. I'm just trying to figure out when we're talking past each other. ;-)

Reply to
krw

Look at the offset mount satellite antennas.

Reply to
upsidedown

Not quite right.

The stove is some variant of a flux concentrator requires a compact target that presents a surface roughly normal to the ray paths.

The oven creates a well insulated hot region surrounded by mirrors and cooks much like a conventional hot air bulk oven. It can cook anything that will fit inside the hot box subject to how hot it gets inside.

The angle of accpetance isn't at all bad. Obviously the high the gain you try to obtain the narrower the acceptance angle becomes.

It is more like 0.9 or slightly better over most of the range of wavelengths.

That is a half of the same trick. You do have to be careful to make the array uniformly illuminated or it will choke on the weakest part.

10 suns equivalent.

Astonishing to me that they can get blue out of it without degrading the organic material very rapidly.

It is easier to do in practice with a horizontal axis but you have to allow for what happens if it ever breaks loose. The MRAO 5km telescope used a high speed lead and steel flywheel as backup power to stow the scopes to zenith in the event of a hard power failure during a storm.

It the effect as a pure kinetic energy if it broke loose was used as an exam question more than once. The Robot wars hypno-disk showed just how davastating a spinning disk can be (especially one with tungsten carbide cutters on the outside).

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Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

Reply to
naveed.ahmed5122

What did you conclude ?

Reply to
Rheilly Phoull

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