SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain

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Hiding in the brain puts the virus out of reach of the immune system. Viral
 infection there creates all kinds of symptoms  that look like something el
se, especially difficulty breathing. Virus can hide there indefinitely and  
then just spontaneously leave and infect other parts of the body as it plea
ses and when it pleases. The most direct route for brain infection is throu
gh the nose.
Experiments on mice help explain all sorts of weird and unexplainable COVID
  long-/short- term outcomes in people, some of which look like they will b
e lifelong and crippling.

https://news.gsu.edu/2021/01/19/study-finds-covid-19-attack-on-brain-not-lu
ngs-triggers-severe-disease-in-mice/

It will be impossible to conduct these kinds of investigations on humans, e
xcept possibly in China.
China is now in process of building massive detention camps to hold people  
testing positive for the virus.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 11:22:25 PM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
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al infection there creates all kinds of symptoms that look like something e
lse, especially difficulty breathing. Virus can hide there indefinitely and
 then just spontaneously leave and infect other parts of the body as it ple
ases and when it pleases. The most direct route for brain infection is thro
ugh the nose.  
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ID long-/short- term outcomes in people, some of which look like they will  
be lifelong and crippling.  
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lungs-triggers-severe-disease-in-mice/  

They provide *an* explanation. There are differences between mice and human
s, and it is possible that humans may not have the same kind of problem.
  
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 except possibly in China.  

It might be difficult with live humans, but the US has a remarkably large s
upply of recently deceased humans who died of a Covid-19 infection, and sam
ples taken at autopsy might be revealing.

Quite why the researchers at Georgia State University didn't mention this i
sn't clear, but it may reflect the same kind of problem that Fred Bloggs se
ems to have.

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e testing positive for the virus.

They are called quarantine centres.  Australia's tourist hotels aren't seei
ng all that many over-seas travellers at the moment, so they have been pres
sed into service for much the same job.  The virus escapes from time to tim
e, and there's a certain amount of pressure to use more remote accommodatio
n to isolate the potentially infected.

China does not seem to have all that many infected people - unlike the US -
 so they won't have to build much in the way of new accommodation. Where th
e "massive" comes from is again something of a mystery. Maybe Fred Bloggs i
s taking his figures on Covid-19 infections from John Doe and Ed Lee, who s
eem to have an interest in inventing much larger numbers than any credible  
source comes up with.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On 21/01/2021 13:12, Bill Sloman wrote:
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Equally it is an animal model of something that is consistent with the  
sort of nasty acute problems seen in some unlucky individuals. I am more  
inclined to think it is the low blood oxygen levels damaging some brain  
function but it could be the virus. It certainly seems to do very  
strange things to the olefactory nerve cells and it isn't far from them  
to the brain. It is also true that if the blood brain barrier is  
breached then an infective agent has an almost free reign.

I'd prefer to think that Covid will eventually end up as childhood  
sniffles adult common cold like the other endemic human coronaviruses  
once it has killed off all those who are most susceptible.

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Seems like quite a sensible thing to test.

If it is true then we have a potentially much more serious problem. It  
might explain long Covid too. One of my friends has that and I thought  
their consultant was being very pessimistic when he said 6 months to  
recover (they are still not right at 9 months on). They were previously  
an active and fit regular skier with no prior health conditions.

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Australia still won't let it's own stranded expats return home! They can  
still find space in these hotels for elite tennis stars though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-55683035

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The problem in the USA and the UK is that it was allowed to get so far  
out of hand that bringing under control back is nigh on impossible now.  
My best guess is once the 40% most vulnerable have been vaccinated then  
it will be safe to unlock (UK chief scientist reckons 70% as of today).

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1351828459065122817

UK now has a world beating Covid daily fatality rate of about 1800 and  
still rising. That is a side effect of "can't cancel Christmas".

--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 12:52:28 AM UTC+11, Martin Brown wrote:
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<snip>

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For months Australia has been limiting the number of returning expatriate t
o the number it can safely quarantine for the 14 days after they've arrived
.

We've recently had two nasty little outbreaks because the quarantine wasn't
 as effective as it should have been, so that number was recently halved to
 allow for tighter quarantine. The deal for the tennis players had been neg
otiated months earlier, and involves different hotels - which the tournamen
t is paying for.

It may not be a good look, but it's not as bad as you claim. Some expatriat
es are still coming back - and the number that want to come back has been r
ising as Australia has been doing better at containing the epidemic and pla
ces like the US and the UK have started doing a lot worse.
  
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The current best guess is you need about 60% immune to get herd immunity, a
nd 70% vaccination should deliver that.

Nobody actually knows, and by the time message get filtered through English
 language science reporters who don't know much about the science they are  
reporting,  it can get a bit confused. If we could pick out the super-sprea
ders and  vaccinate them we might be able to do better, but that doesn't se
em to be remotely practical, and they are going out and getting themselves  
infected anyway, which probably means that they'd end up dead or immune rat
her faster than we could vaccinate them.
  
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

doesn't display the data in a way that quite fits that.

The total infections in the UK are fairly high - at 51,491 per million - wh
ich isn't exactly world beating and the deaths so far are at 1,370 per mill
ion, which isn't world beating either. The US total cases are higher - at 7
5,287 per million - and their  deaths so far are a bit lower at 1,252 per m
illion.

Both the US and the UK are shambles - in the archaic sense of a butcher's s
laughter-house.  This isn't strictly accurate - neither Donald Trump nor Bo
ris Johnson intended to kill all the people that have died because they cou
ldn't copy best practice in more successful countries, and quite a few othe
r countries have done just as badly. We can only hope that we can get enoug
h people vaccinated to get on top of the epidemic before too many more peop
le die.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On 21/01/2021 12:22, Fred Bloggs wrote:
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There are major differences between the anatomy of the mouse/rat nose  
and the human nose. Google Vomeronasal or Jacobsen's organ. It wasn't  
mentioned in the original article at  
<https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/1/132/htm .

I would be interested to see any comments about whether or not the level  
of infective agent applied (10^5 plaque-forming units) is a reasonable  
amount, or an overload.

An interesting paper, nonetheless, and yet another reason why we should  
be looking for effective antiviral agents which can pass the BBB, as  
well as vaccines.

--  

Jeff

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 8:54:06 AM UTC-5, Jeff Layman wrote:
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iral infection there creates all kinds of symptoms that look like something
 else, especially difficulty breathing. Virus can hide there indefinitely a
nd then just spontaneously leave and infect other parts of the body as it p
leases and when it pleases. The most direct route for brain infection is th
rough the nose.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
OVID long-/short- term outcomes in people, some of which look like they wil
l be lifelong and crippling.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
t-lungs-triggers-severe-disease-in-mice/  
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s, except possibly in China.  
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ple testing positive for the virus.
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The brain for the most part is "immunologically privileged," mainly because
 it cannot survive an onslaught of destructive immune response as occurs in
 other parts of the body. The bottom line, if that does occur, you're in se
rious trouble.
 Some recent research on discovering how that damage does occur and how it  
is related to some very serious neurological disease as well as outright in
sanity.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/important-link-between-the-brain
-and-immune-system-found/
As you say it's nigh impossible to get medication past the brain blood barr
ier, so there's not much that can be done.

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On 21/01/2021 15:27, Fred Bloggs wrote:
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No, I didn't say that! It's relatively easy for drugs to pass the BBB -  
just think of all the anaesthetics, antidepressants, antipsychotics, and  
many other psychoactive agents which can affect neurones and  
neurotransmitters. The problem is getting large, highly polar molecules  
past the BBB. Unfortunately, that includes many immunoactive antiviral  
agents such as proteins and polypeptides. Page 7 here gives the ideal  
characteristics for an antiviral drug which needs to penetrate the BBB  
<https://www.escmid.org/escmid_publications/escmid_elibrary/material/?mid33%429 .  
That paper, and it's about 5 years old, shows that there are quite a few  
antivirals which can penetrate the BBB.

It is, however, possible to manufacture peptides which can penetrate the  
BBB and are active against viruses:
<https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328540229_Therapeutic_treatment_of_Zika_virus_infection_using_a_brain-penetrating_antiviral_peptide

--  

Jeff

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 2:13:03 PM UTC-5, Jeff Layman wrote:
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 Viral infection there creates all kinds of symptoms that look like somethi
ng else, especially difficulty breathing. Virus can hide there indefinitely
 and then just spontaneously leave and infect other parts of the body as it
 pleases and when it pleases. The most direct route for brain infection is  
through the nose.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 COVID long-/short- term outcomes in people, some of which look like they w
ill be lifelong and crippling.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
not-lungs-triggers-severe-disease-in-mice/  
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ans, except possibly in China.  
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eople testing positive for the virus.  
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el  
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d  
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ause it cannot survive an onslaught of destructive immune response as occur
s in other parts of the body. The bottom line, if that does occur, you're i
n serious trouble.  
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it is related to some very serious neurological disease as well as outright
 insanity.  
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rain-and-immune-system-found/  
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barrier, so there's not much that can be done.
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33%429>.  
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Alcohol is famous for passing through the barrier too. We are on the subjec
t of antivirals. Thus far the track record in dealing with complications of
 the barrier and the various encephalitis viruses is not very good. None ex
ists for SARS and it may not even possible to fast track the development of
 one as with the vaccine, That is truly something that will take years. Tox
icity is a major issue with that class of drugs. And it will be unlikely  t
hey can use a drug that targets just one stage of the replication, they wil
l need to target several, or resistance develops quickly. If the infection  
of the brain gets away from them, there's not much that can be done.


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_of_Zika_virus_infection_using_a_brain-penetrating_antiviral_peptide>  
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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 2:13:03 PM UTC-5, Jeff Layman wrote:
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 Viral infection there creates all kinds of symptoms that look like somethi
ng else, especially difficulty breathing. Virus can hide there indefinitely
 and then just spontaneously leave and infect other parts of the body as it
 pleases and when it pleases. The most direct route for brain infection is  
through the nose.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 COVID long-/short- term outcomes in people, some of which look like they w
ill be lifelong and crippling.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
not-lungs-triggers-severe-disease-in-mice/  
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ans, except possibly in China.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
eople testing positive for the virus.  
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el  
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d  
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ause it cannot survive an onslaught of destructive immune response as occur
s in other parts of the body. The bottom line, if that does occur, you're i
n serious trouble.  
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it is related to some very serious neurological disease as well as outright
 insanity.  
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rain-and-immune-system-found/  
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barrier, so there's not much that can be done.
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33%429>.  
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_of_Zika_virus_infection_using_a_brain-penetrating_antiviral_peptide>  

Here's a more general description of that anti-zika peptide.
https://www.genengnews.com/news/zikas-balloon-popped-by-peptide-needle/
LOL- I really don't believe a word of what they say, especially the part ab
out not injuring human cell membranes, which they glossed over pretty quick
ly.

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 04:22:20 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs

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Why is that not fatal?


Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 2:00:20 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
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It is fatal when enough neuronal damage is done.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 6:00:20 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
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Perhaps because the Covid-19 virus attacks ACE-2 receptors which are on the surface of cells that affect blood pressure directly.

Nerve cells might not have them. The Covid-19 virus would then have to get back through the blood-brain barrier to find cells that it can infect.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Hides and Hibernates in the Brain
On 22/01/2021 00:34, Bill Sloman wrote:
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According to this paper the glial cell types and in particular the  
astrocytes are targetted by Covid infection in vitro testing.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210120/How-does-SARS-CoV-2-infect-brain-cells.aspx

They are implicated in inflammation response and calcium signalling.


--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

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