Re: OT: Fascinating Supreme Court case (United States)

double jeopardy and dual sovereignty are mostly unrelated concepts, for example depending on particulars a murder could be just a murder at the state level but treason at the federal level. Absurd to think that because some podunk state jury of numbskulls in the back woods somewhere finds the defendant innocent of the murder rap the Federal government is just going to go "Oh, okay" and drop the charge of treason.

In any case murder and treason are two different crimes. Drug possession and possession with intent to distribute are two different crimes (the standard of evidence is different, you have to somehow prove beyond reasonable doubt the intent in the latter case, as well, usually pretty easy to do if there are zip lock bags and wads of cash and burner cell phones and stuff lying around) Double jeopardy is about being charged twice with the _same_ crime.

Agree. Otherwise someone could be prosecuted 51 times for the same act. Or thousands of times if cities join in.

The act should govern, not what people call the act.

The flip side is that a city or state could launch a bogus prosecution and find someone innocent, immunizing them against a Federal prosecution.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

I have to say that on principle, I don't agree with this second trial. Double jeopardy is a fundamental protection to stop the state, with, essentially, infinite resources, from keep trying you until they get the result they want. I am not swayed by emotions in this case. Its about facts and procedures designed to prevent innocent people being convicted, which for me, is way more important.

I know little about the details of this case, however, it would take a lot to convince me that there was no possibility of a fit up, or inadvertent contamination of evidence. This was over 30 years ago. There are also issues of the complete absence of statute of limitations in the UK, making an effective defence, essentially, impossible. What were you doing on

23/09/1986 at 12:46 PM?

-- Kevin Aylward

- SuperSpice

I know some pretty awesome Italian engineers. And I loved my Alfa Romeo and Lancia Italian-engineered cars.

--
 Thanks, 
    - Win

That's okay! I didn't come up with the joke!

But did you love your Alfa like, unconditionally or only when it wasn't in the shop? Just curious...

My Alfa was made in 1968 - 50 years ago this year. It was a daily driver for me from 1987 for twenty years, after restoration, and still gets out twice a week or so.

I have *never* been stranded by the side of the road.

How many cars do you reckon could achieve that record?

Clifford Heath.

My Toyota truck. It was only a '97, but was in great shape when a much lar ger truck prematurely ended its sweet life.

Rick C.

Tesla referral code -+

Ok, nice, but it would only now be 20 years old. My Alfa was already 16 when I bought it. Just pointing out that sterotypes can be dumb.

Let's just hope the mmm people who always wear sun glasses don't read this

Agree. And they are wonderful road, tunnel and bridge builders.

And they have style, individually.

Werner

They even build collapsible bridges...... They collapse very reliable.

That isn't an Italian specialty. The British firm Freeman, Fox and Partners specialised in designing box-girder bridges which tended to fall down while they were being constructed. They didn't go out of business until 1987.

I know about it because the West Gate Bridge in Melbourne fell down when I was working in Melbourne, and a couple of ex-colleagues show up at work the next day, looking very shaken - they'd moved to jobs on the bridge a few week earlier.

The collapse killed 35 workers and injured 18 more. Freeman, Fox and Partners had also designed the Milford Haven bridge in the UK which had fallen down in a similar way a few years earlier, but that had only killed four people.

Civil engineers are only human, and their mistakes do tend to kill people.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Hadn't heard about that bridge collapse before, from:

"Attention turned to the west span. In order to prevent buckling of the free flange of these half-spans, they stiffened the flange itself with an extra longitudinal stiffener, and they also added cross beams running diagonally from the top free flange back to the bottom flange. This arrangement worked and buckling was prevented during the lifts. But when they went to connect the two spans, they discovered that there was a vertical gap of 115mm between them.

While they had faced this sort of issue on the east span, they had been able to remove it with hydraulic jacks. But the gap of 115mm on the west span was too large a distance for the jacks to close, so they placed 51t of large concrete blocks on one half-span to close the gap. It worked, and the two halves were brought into line. But suddenly, the entire upper flange buckled across its width ? the one thing they?d been trying to prevent had occurred. While there had been sufficient capacity to prevent buckling during the lift, the extra loading from the concrete blocks was too much."

Damn what kind of madness is this?! Mechanical engineering not my forte but trying to squeeze two thousand ton bridge spans together that are clearly mis-aligned like force-fitting a rusty old pickup driveline linkage together all sounds mad.

I drove my Alfa and Lancia mid-engine cars for about 10 years each, and they both spent minimal time in the shop. The Alfa had one component, a hydraulic fuel injection actuator, that often failed, and I had to go in for that. Both cars were a dream to drive, with precision steering and road balance. I've enjoyed seeing the re-emergence of Alfa Romeo in the US, but sadly it's too late; now I'm an electric-car fan. I love high low-speed torque. And the quiet rising motor-drive PWM whine is really cool.

--
 Thanks, 
    - Win

rs specialised in designing box-girder bridges which tended to fall down wh ile they were being constructed. They didn't go out of business until 1987.

I was working in Melbourne, and a couple of ex-colleagues show up at work t he next day, looking very shaken - they'd moved to jobs on the bridge a few week earlier.

ners had also designed the Milford Haven bridge in the UK which had fallen down in a similar way a few years earlier, but that had only killed four pe ople.

.

Civil engineering is too broad a classification for this, it is structural engineering. The bridge failure does point up the reason for conservative o verdesign in structures, usually by factor of 2x or more worst case. Gener ally when one connection goes, it throws excess stress on the other connect ions which themselves are about to go. So you end up with this rapid runawa y catastrophic total structural failure. Stuff like spans sagging, concrete cracking, and especially bolts popping from shear failure, are a sure sign to get out of Dodge posthaste because that thing is going to come down rea l fast. The people working on that bridge were fools.

rs specialised in designing box-girder bridges which tended to fall down wh ile they were being constructed. They didn't go out of business until 1987.

I was working in Melbourne, and a couple of ex-colleagues show up at work t he next day, looking very shaken - they'd moved to jobs on the bridge a few week earlier.

ners had also designed the Milford Haven bridge in the UK which had fallen down in a similar way a few years earlier, but that had only killed four pe ople.

.

Looks like the Chinese hold the record: According to the Hydrology Department of Henan Province, approximately 26,0

00 people died in the province[13] from flooding and another 145,000 died d uring subsequent epidemics and famine. In addition, about 5,960,000 buildin gs collapsed, and 11 million residents were affected. Unofficial estimates of the number of people killed by the disaster have run as high as 230,000 people.[14] The death toll of this disaster was declassified in 2005.[4]

This design came in almost $7000 under budget and only stressed to ~50% of max load as you can see at the bottom, one of my better works I think!

So do you already have your Tesla?

Rick C.

- Get 6 months of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code -

Alfa mid-engine? I assume a Sud, or Sprint, but those aren't really mid-engine.

Lancia Monte-Carlo? Sweet-looking ride, but very underpowered. Or just a normal Beta (not really mid-engined)?

The Spica injection was awful. Thankfully not many were delivered here, it was mostly for the USA.

The Giulia Quadrifoglio is an eye-opener, for sure. I had a couple of hot laps in one.

Clifford Heath.