OT: When unions control health care

By RICHARD E. RALSTON EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICANS FOR FREE CHOICE IN MEDICINE, NEWPORT BEACH

"Before I developed a detailed interest in government management of health care, I was unwillingly introduced to the subject when I was badly injured in a head-on collision in a taxi headed to LaGuardia Airport in New York City in 1993. To my everlasting regret, the ambulance took me to a hospital run by New York City.

"The hospital was undoubtedly understaffed and overwhelmed. But that situation was made much worse by a nursing staff of indifferent, time-serving union thugs. Over the next eight days and nights, I did encounter two or three hardworking nurses trying to help patients as much as they could, but they were a tiny minority.

"I waited outside the emergency room for some hours until someone complained about the large pool of blood accumulating beneath my gurney. I required many hours of surgery to repair blood vessels, then tissue, then skin. Afterward I complained of pain in my hip, and the surgeon asked the nurse to bring a painkiller for my IV. After 30 minutes he asked the nurse about it, and she said she could not "push it in" (to the IV bag). The surgeon responded, "Then tell me that, don't just walk away." The head of the ER later explained that the current union agreement did not permit nurses to inject other medications into IV bags.

"I was allowed to rest on a bed outside the ER until I could leave for the airport. I was not able to walk the next morning, and new x-rays showed a broken hip, so I was admitted. At about 7 a.m., I requested access to a phone from a nurse, as no one in my family knew where I was. She walked away. Many more requests made to any nurse walking by produced the same result.

"Finally, more than 10 hours later, the head nurse came by and told me I could get a phone by my bed for $25, but the office for that would not open until the following morning. I somehow made it on one leg to a straight-back chair and used my good leg to push into the hallway. Another patient saw my predicament and found a wheelchair I could use. I found a pay phone outside the ward and made a call. A nurse tried to stop me, saying, "You can't do that." I told her to mind her own business.

"As I rolled back to my bed, the secretary in the ward office asked me if I would like a lawyer. That sounded like a good idea. Five minutes later a phone was installed next to my bed, and an attorney was on the line. I am glad he had a scout in the hospital.

"The next morning a patient trying to make it to the men's room had an accident. The result stayed in the middle of the already-filthy floor all day. The nurses refused to clean it up. So did the janitors, because their union contract said they could not handle anything from a human body.

"These were only a few highlights of my stay.

"Today I am suspicious when a union for nurses tirelessly advocates complete government control of all medical care. Why do nurses' unions fight so hard to destroy private insurance? Because they want to place one union noose around the neck of all health care in the country. That requires the destruction of the rights of insurance company investors, employees and policy-holders. And for that they would have to establish a spoils system with politicians they can control. In California, they already have that, with the help of union leaders for teachers, prison guards and others. Any medical system they impose will primarily serve that spoils system, not doctors or their patients.

"I am sure many others have had more horrific experiences, and I am much better now. But what lingers most from my misery at that time was my realization and fear that Hillary Clinton was trying to create a national medical system that would perform like hospitals run by New York City. I now fear that President Barack Obama is trying to do the same thing. We must not let that happen."

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Do we really want this for the whole country?

I think not. I know I for sure don't.

Thanks, Rich

Reply to
Richard the Dreaded Libertaria
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Trust Rich to recycle the down-market propaganda amed at the gullible dimwits.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Reply to
Bill Sloman

I'm not generally a fan of unions, but in this particular anecdote, there's nothing that suggests to me that the guy's experience would necessarily have been better if unions were *not* involved: If the folks working at Walter Reed hospital allowed veterans -- who deserve nothing but respect for serving their country -- to fester in a place with mold, vermin, no hot water, and incompetent workers, to me it's clear that poor management can happen at any hospital, regardless or whether or not the workers are civilians or military, unionized or not.

It should also be noted that there's no way to verify or get the "other side of the story" for this piece. While I don't doubt he really did have an awful experience that was completely unacceptable, there may well be some mitigating factors that he wasn't aware of. (E.g., in many hospitals, there just aren't enough doctors, and ER triage may very well make you wait for hours if you don't have a life-threatening condition. Of course, over such a span, conditions change and you should be re-evaluated for your "place in line" if, as in the author's case, blood starts pooling under your gurney!)

Of course not... but what the article states (without any citations) that

*nurses' unions* are advocating is *quite different* than what, e.g., Obama is advocating.

I just can't see the average quality of care getting worse under Obama's plan (although how much better it gets is entirely unclear as well -- it might be close to a wash). Of course, it will require an incredible (unprecedented) amount of tax payer funding, and the opinion that it's not worth it is sound as is the opinion that at any price it's not an appropriate use of taxes.

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

"Joel Koltner" wrote in news:Hpmfm.450360$ snipped-for-privacy@en-nntp-05.dc.easynews.com:

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Jim Yanik
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Reply to
Jim Yanik

That appears to be pretty legitimate questioning of some of the provisions in Obama's plan -- and while some questions don't have simple true/false answers ("Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"), it's definitely worth reading. Thanks for the link...

I suspect that:

1) Some of the "worrisome" text he quotes are just poorly written and no grand power play is intended (e.g., the gov't having access to your account -- really could be intended just to mandate that the gov't. *can* accept electronic payments, not that you'll be *required* to do so) 2) Other bits might not actually be anything new, just things most people are unaware of (e.g., audits of self-insured employers -- I wouldn't be surprised if this were already required)

I can answer his questions about rationing: Yes, the government will absolutely ration health care, just as all private insurers do today. This is unfortunate, but it's impossible to not ration health care given the finite resources we have as a country (particular when those "resources" begin as someone else's private property and are then involuntarily taken in the form of taxes). Of course, the devil is in the details -- I wouldn't want to be the PR guy who explains why grandma who's 75 won't be able to get a tax payer-funded kidney transplant whereas grandpa who's 74 will...

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

"Joel Koltner" wrote in news:_aofm.503205$ snipped-for-privacy@en-nntp-04.dc.easynews.com:

gov't ALWAYS takes advantage of "poorly written"; the Second Amendment is a fine example of that;"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

but you can go to court against a private company,or arbitration. you must have not dealt much with government.

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Jim Yanik
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Reply to
Jim Yanik

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:49:25 -0700, Joel Koltner wrote: ...

Just wait and see.

What will all the Canadians do when they lose the safety valve of Free Market (such as it is) medical care in the US?

Yeah you'll say that "The Rich" will exploit the system - but when they implement socialized medicine with its concomitant rationing, then the only ones who will work the system will be the government bureaucrats and their cronies.

Just watch.

And take notes. >:->

Cheers! Rich

Reply to
Richard the Dreaded Libertaria

So, yhou've never heard of "unintended consequences"?

Maybe you could check that out, and get back to us.

Thanks, Rich

Reply to
Richard the Dreaded Libertaria

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In the US we already have rationing of health care. Your insurance company decides what you do and don't get.

Reply to
MooseFET

Take a fast trip to the far east?

I wouldn't be surprised if -- assuming an Obamaesque health care plan passes -- plastic surgeons see an uptick in sales.

Reply to
Joel Koltner

"Joel Koltner" wrote in news:aHGfm.489258$ snipped-for-privacy@en-nntp-09.dc.easynews.com:

yes,all the deviants wanting expensive sex-change ops,which WILL be covered under Obamacare.

people also go to Mexico and I know two women who have gone to Peru for elective surgeries.(implants!)

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Jim Yanik
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Reply to
Jim Yanik

:-) I was thinking more along the lines of breast implants/tummy tucks/face lifts based on lower-income folks having a bit more free cash around, but you might be right!

I do think there's something fundamentally wrong with our culture today that suggests there's something wrong with old people looking... old. Initially it was just actresses/fashion models going under the knife to look younger than their years, but I've read that these days a lot of people in jobs where their appearance has little or no bearing on their performance whatsoever do so as well. E.g., Sally figures she'll have a better shot at being promoted to V.P. of the bank branch she works at if she gets rid of those crows' feet. Sick. (I suppose this is yet another symptom of how little technical ability is actually required for many jobs these days, thanks in large part to advances in technology. If Sally and all of her co-workers have pretty much identical productivity levels -- since the computers are doing all the "real" work anyway --, what else is there left to judge?)

I'm thankful that in engineering it's obvious that there is a very wide range of abilities out there.

Yeah, I've been told it's cheaper to do it that way and get a free vacation as a bonus than to have it done in the U.S.

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

Joel Koltner wrote in news:83Ifm.515127$ snipped-for-privacy@en-nntp-03.dc.easynews.com:

I've talked with several young ladies who told me they felt much more self- confident after getting implants.I can understand people wanting to feel better about themselves,but I don't think that government should be footing that bill.

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Jim Yanik
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Reply to
Jim Yanik

Sure, I agree with that (although -- as always -- there are gray areas... most people probably support gov't. health care to support fixing, e.g., cleft lips... and even with breasts, most would probably support reduction surgery for women who have breasts so large it causes back problems), my rant was primarily just that we have a somewhat messed up culture when women somehow get the message that there's something wrong with them if their breasts aren't a certain size in the first place. But if people want to go off and pay for plastic surgery out of their own pocket, by all means, more power to them.

Parents (usually fathers) who get their (generally male) kids growth hormone injections because they're otherwise expected to be noticeably short (e.g., 5'

5") are just as bad.

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

Statistically it would appear that staying away from doctors IMPROVES your life expectancy ;-)

...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

A lot of the problems at Walter Reed, other military and VA facilities is that their budgets for renovations & expansions weren't approved. Instead, the money they needed was spent on political pork projects. The VA was told to lower their requirements to cover low income Veterans without access to other medical care about ten years ago. All of a sudden they were faced with a 200% increase in eligible Veterans, along with all the retirees covered by 'Tri-care for life'.

The Gainesville VA hospital is quite outdated, but clean. Some areas look to have been built in the '50s or early '60s. They fought for almost 15 years to add more patient beds, and for space for modern equipment. The MRI & Ultrasound department is underground, off the side of a service tunnel that connects them to Shands Hospital, which is across a busy highway. Some of the other labs & clinics are scattered around Gainesville, because there isn't enough room to house them.

The contractor that makes eye glasses was literally stuck in what had been a closet for cleaning supplies. There wasn't enough parking, but now that construction has finally started, over half of that is gone. One part was used for the new patient tower, while the building contractors are using most of what was left. So, either yo get there before 6:00 am, or look for a spot on the rented parking lots and hope the shuttle bus gets you to the hospital in time for your appointment. They are waiting to hear if the proposed parking garage is approved, and built. Luckily for me they didn't take away the handicapped parking area so when I have to drive, there is usually a spot open.

When you consider that the majority of VA patients are over 55, or severely disabled they need the space. Most of the clinics had to move the waiting areas out into the hallways, to use the extra space to see patients. As far as incompetent help, the VA and military have the same problems as any other hospital. Then you have to add in the Federal mandates that they have to hire some hard core unemployables for housekeeping, and other zero skilled jobs.

Walter Reed and other government medical buildings deteriorated as the patient loads went up faster than their budgets. They had to chose whether to spend money on the buildings, or let people die.

The local VA clinics were so overloaded that they had to open a temporary clinic in between. It is to be replaced with a permanent facility about three times the current size so they can add X-ray and some other equipment that currently isn't available outside the hospital. The lease is about up on the clinic I use. The VA wanted to build a new building tailored to treating elderly & disabled patients, before Obama took office. I haven't heard another word, since then. The leased space is on two floors, and most of the time the elevators are locked out. This forces people to risk falling down the stairs, or having to walk around the building, to the lower entrance. That is a ten minute walk, if you're in good health.

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You can\'t have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

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That is contrary to supreme court decisions.

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Wow. Not even my 28 yo daughter is so stunningly ignorant.

Reply to
JosephKK

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So bring us some engineering.

Reply to
JosephKK

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