OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)

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So far, an informal survey suggests that first doses of Moderna
tend to produce more side-effects (ignoring their severity)
than Pfizer.  And, that second doses (of either) are more likely
to provoke a response than the first.

[There may be some bias in this, however, as different populations
are receiving each -- at least, here]

Does this coincide with other folks' observations?

Also curious as to the timing of these reactions (something I failed
to track when gathering these impressions  :<  )

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)

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Since most of us are unlikely to receive both types (and only one
could come first) there's always going to be some amount of
apples-and-oranges in this comparison.

My own experience and my wife's (Moderna in both cases):

-  I had some mild fatigue the first day, and a sore arm for three.

-  My wife had a significant flare-up of all-body inflammation (e.g.
   joints hurt) after the first dose, which resolved in a day.  Arm
   sore enough to make sleeping difficult the first night, but the
   soreness went away after 3-4 days.

Overall I'd say it was on a par with our first doses of the Shingrix
vaccine, a while back.

Neither of us has had our second dose yet (3 weeks away).  Based on
what we hear, and on our stronger reactions to the second Shingrix
shots, we're anticipating a somewhat uncomfortable day or two.

A friend who received the Pfizer faccine reported similar mild arm
soreness, but didn't mention fatigue.  Overall his comment was
"nothing to it."  He's about 15 years older than I, though, so that's
a confounding factor (maybe an apples-and-sloe-berries comparison?)  His
wife had a similar experience with Pfizer.

I saw one mention on-line that the Moderna vaccine contains about
three times the amount of mRNA per dose as the Pfizer, and of course
the carrier lipids are significantly different.  Hard to guess which
might be the cause of any difference that exists in peoples' reactions.

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/17/2021 8:10 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
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Of course!  And, as in the bracketed comment, above, different
populations are receiving different vaccines.  Each "facility"
addresses some portion of the eligible population.  Many facilities
are Moderna-only so folks directed to those will obviously be
receiving the Moderna vaccine.  Others are Moderna/Pfizer -- though
the recipient has no choice in which he/she will receive.

[I suspect the handling of the Moderna vaccine is more tolerant
as all of the drive-thru sites are Moderna, exclusively.]

Curiously, though, I hear about more folks receiving the Moderna
than the Pfizer - even though you are led to believe that they
are dispensing comparable numbers of each (?).

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Only mild soreness in the arm at the injection site.  Definitely not
enough to interfere with its use or make it uncomfortable to sleep (on).
Hint:  working the muscle right after the injection seems to be a win.
(Pfizer vaccine)

I've heard of folks running fevers for two days, feeling flu-like,
etc. with Moderna -- but nothing comparable from Pfizer.

Second shots seemed to generate a stronger reaction (likely because
the induced response activates the body's primed immune system?).

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Hmmm... I've never had a noticeable "reaction" to a vaccine but have
yet to try the Shingles vaccine.

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Ah, OK.  I hadn't realized it (Shingrix) was a two-dose regimen.
Second Pfizer dose, today (assuming it has not been canceled;
many appointments being canceled due to shortages they claim are
related to the severe weather ELSEWHERE in the country -- 70F today)

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Yeah, even a relatively small (dia) hypodermic.  None of the "pressure"
one often feels with some injections as the tissues try to accommodate
the added volume being injected.

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But, had they received their second doses, yet?

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Yes, it is always amusing to hear the contraindications for ANY
medicine:  "Don't take Foobeediddle if you are allergic to
Foobeediddle or any ingredients of Foobeediddle"  Yeah, right.
Like you're going to know what the ingredients are *or* if
you're allergic to "Foobeediddle" itself BEFORE you take it??!

<rolls eyes>

Off to the hospital...  :>

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
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It's definitely more tolerant.  The Pfizer vaccine needs to be kept at
dry-ice temperatures until it's thawed out for use in the next few
hours.  The Moderna vaccine is stable at ordinary lab-freezer
temperatures.

Getting enough very-cold shipment and storage equipment has been a
significant roadblock to widescale deployment of the Pfizer vaccine.

Neither is as distribution-friendly as the adenovirus-based vaccines,
which only need a good refrigerator.

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I suspect it may vary significantly by area.  For rural areas, smaller
clinics, and pop-up vaccination sites I expect that Moderna is the
vaccine of choice.

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It certainly helps in the days after, in my experiemce - a bit more
soreness when working and massaging the muscle, but then some relief
afterwards.

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I've never had a noticeable reaction to the flu vaccine, but did feel
the Shrigrix.  Conversation with some peers at work suggests that my
experience wasn't uncommon.

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Yeah, it's a "prime and pump" regime, just as the mRNA vaccines are.

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Nope.  They're about a week ahead of us, and they're aware they may
feel the second dose more than the first.

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Lawyerspeak :-)

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Hope all goes as planned - please let us know how you feel over the
next few days.

Incidentally, https://xkcd.com/2425/ has what I think is the most
effective explanation of mRNA vaccines that I've ever seen.  Analogy
is a wonderful tool :-)


Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/18/2021 4:11 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
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Yes.  But, even with ultra-cold storage available "a few hundred feet
away", the drive-thru sites seem to have avoided Pfizer.  E.g., If I
go *inside* the hospital, I get a Pfizer vaccine; if I prefer to
remain in my car, I get Moderna.  I doubt there is a 50 ft difference
between the two sites and the actual cold storage facility.

[There is no sign of refrigeration AT either injection site]

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Here, there are several administration sites with different portions
of the eligible population targeted to each.  For example, teachers
are vaccinated at the convention center (IIRC).  So, Moderna is
implicitly used for teachers.

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<frown>

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I saw a woman receiving a vaccination at a local pharmacy a week
back.  The pharmacist commented, "So, this is your second shot, Lucy?"
That piqued my curiosity:  "Are they giving COVID vaccinations at
the pharmacy?"  And, "I thought they had to have a queue of
patients ready to go to ensure ALL of the doses in each vial can
be used in a short period of time.

Obviously, it was another vaccine (given "Lucy's" age, likely shingles).

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There's been no concerted effort to let folks (here) know what to expect;
not in the registration process, administration or followup.  Nor any
education as to what to be *wary* of (I always ask health care
professionals after any procedure:  what should I expect?  what should
I see as cause for *alarm*??)

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Yes.  I've often imagined what a lawsuit would be like -- in front of
"peers":  And how, exactly, mr attorney, am I (or anyone else in the
general public) supposed to KNOW if we are allergic -- as I apparently
was -- to Foobeediddle???  Do *you* know if YOU are allergic to it?

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Much quicker than the first visit.  I suspect they've been cancelling
appointments (lack of supply due to delivery/ordering problems) as
the "crowd" seemed thinner, as well.  I doubt we were away from the
car for more than 20 minutes -- including the time to walk into the
facility, etc.

Amusingly, same lady (5 of them giving the shots); and we recognized each
other!

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/18/2021 4:11 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
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Well, they claimed any reaction would be relatively prompt.
And, only last a day or two.

Given that 2+ days have passed, I'll say this was largely
a "non-event".

SWMBO ended up with a nasty black-and-blue at the injection
site -- that is slowly fading.  I wonder if opting for "the other
arm" might have been a smarter move (?)

No pain, either (but it sure LOOKS ugly!)

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/20/21 3:55 PM, Don Y wrote:
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That's just a gorilla with a needle problem...have had a few of those  
from VA clinic. A good injection never leaves a bruise!


Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/20/2021 9:01 PM, Bill Martin wrote:
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Same woman gave first and second doses.


Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/17/21 6:02 PM, Don Y wrote:
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Had my first Moderna dose a week & a half ago. No obnoxious side  
effects, very slight arm soreness and that revved-up "I feel extra good"  
experience that usually means you are about to be hammered by a cold  
virus. The hammer never dropped...so I surmise that it was the immune  
system saying "look out", but finding nothing to actually attack. Just  
my guess.
-bill m

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 18/02/2021 02:02, Don Y wrote:
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Oxford Astrazeneca here.  Bruised feeling around the jab site for a  
couple of days, like most jabs.  Otherwise, nothing.

--  
Cheers
Clive

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)

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Pfizer here:

Arm uncomfortable to lie on during the first night, otherwise no
noticeable effects at all.  I think I had C-19 last March, so my
reaction may be different from that of someone who hadn't had any
infection.


--  
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
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Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 6:52:22 AM UTC-5, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
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What makes you think you had COVID-19 in March last year?  At that time I t
hink it was still much more likely to catch influenza than COVID-19.  The l
ast day of March the UK reported 3,000 new infections nearing the tail end  
of an exponential rise until people started acting like they cared about ca
tching this disease.  

I had something that was much worse than any cold I've ever had early in Ma
rch.  The chances of catching this disease was so low at that time, I had a
 better chance of winning at the race track.  

--  

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 18/02/2021 12:55, Rick C wrote:
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About half the people I know said they had a sore arm the day afterwards  
with Pfizer. Didn't stop them doing Zumba the day after that though.  
Fewer people seem to react to AZ Oxford but medics get the Pfizer one  
(at least round here).
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In March last year and travelling through London at rush hour on the  
tube the odds were rather shorter than you might hope. A friend got it  
just passing through on his way home (confirmed by later tests) and  
several colleagues of my wife got it from attending a conference. At  
that time you only got tested on admission to hospital with symptoms.

The place was deep cleaned and the following week the UK suddenly went  
into the first lockdown as things had spiralled out of control.
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It is just possible that you did have it then. It seems to have been  
circulating in the relatively young and fit European ski set for a while  
before it got into the elderly population where it caused deaths.

Famously one of the UK Panorama team used an early antibody test on air  
and it came back positive so he said that the test was no good since he  
hadn't been sick for many months. He subsequently took each new antibody  
test as they became available and after about the fourth positive was  
advised that he almost certainly had had it and not noticed at all.

Interestingly some detect true virus antibodies from the protein shell  
but are insensitive to the spike protein ones from vaccines.

--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)

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I had been to a dance and danced with someone who (I didn't know this at
the time) had just returned from Italy and who tested positive for C-19
the following day.  I heard about it a few weeks later from someone who
knew the infected person.  

I experienced 5 weeks of symptoms and the surfaces of my nose, throat
and airways still haven't quite returned to normal.


--  
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
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Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/17/2021 8:02 PM, Don Y wrote:
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My friend got the Pfizer and could not sleep on his left shoulder for a  
day or so. No other reactions.

I did not have that problem. In fact no problems at all. I could barely  
tell I'd even had a shot. Next dose in 6 more days.

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/17/2021 9:02 PM, Don Y wrote:
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Male approximately 40 here, had the first Moderna shot yesterday  
morning. The shot itself felt unlike other vaccinations I've had, barely  
feel it when it goes in. Then a bit of warmth and tingling in the arm  
for a few minutes afterwards.

Then felt a bit jittery/restless/achy and generally "blah" the rest of  
the day, with some mild chills/nausea. No headache or other flu-like  
symptoms and temperature has been normal. Arm soreness took several  
hours to kick in, it's more sore than a flu shot, but less than I recall  
my last tetanus booster being. Arm is still a bit sore today but fading  
rapidly.

The 82 y/o I was accompanying reports about the same

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 9:41:16 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
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So you declared yourself a long term caregiver of your mother?
I suppose that makes sense.

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/19/2021 1:39 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
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You don't have to like, officially "declare" yourself anything in MA to  
get the vaccine along with an elderly person over 75 you accompany to a  
vaccine site, you just have to be accompanying them:

<https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-to-allow-those-accompanying-75-residents-to-receive-vaccine/2299027/#:~:text=In%20an%20effort%20to%20make,to%20receive%20a%20shot%20themselves .>

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On 2/19/2021 1:39 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
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No I'm not a full-time caregiver if that's what you're asking. She's  
mostly independent for the moment and for the bulk of the other stuff  
there are people who get paid to help with that.

Re: OT: Vaccine side effects (first hand)
On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 2:26:22 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
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I wasn't asking about that. I was wondering how you were eligible for a vaccination restricted to front line health workers, essential personnel and very old people.

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