OT: Solar farm with batteries, to power LA

Discusses the ins and outs of LA's contract, for a 400MW AC, 530MW DC solar farm with battery storage:

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And an older article:

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Reply to
Winfield Hill
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That battery is 1/4 the power of the array, and will deliver that for two hours. Why bother?

Shutting down ng power plants will get interesting.

Massive-scale use of lithium batteries has issues of its own.

Reply to
jlarkin

They call it four hours, probably because the demand goes down in the evening. The huge benefit of this type of solar farm is providing power during the hot days, when everyone in LA is running AC full blast. The extra 130MW saves on DC-AC conversion costs and provides off-peak power. They also discuss holding off on using the battery until the next morning, to reduce early AM peaks and avoid ramping up generators.

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Reply to
Winfield Hill

Now we have heard from the queen of the non-statement.

"Why bother?", "get interesting" and "has issues of its own". I guess that sums it up. No need to actually talk about any details.

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  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Rick C

If CO2 reduction is the goal, China is building enough coal plants every week to crush the savings of that thing many times over.

There might be a lithium issue too:

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Reply to
John Larkin

They need to get HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilation) installed in their homes. It works the same in summer as it does in winter. Completely passive except for fans.

Ontario, Canada has made it mandantory for all new home construction. Huge energy savings in summer and winter.

Reply to
Steve Wilson

JL is so good at the FUD thing it's fuddy, I mean funny. Rather than to make any sort of argument, he just tosses a turd in the soup bowl and leaves.

To save you the trouble the link he posted shows there are enough lithium reserves to handle current production for 400 years. Then there are many times more than that as resources (not presently economically recoverable).

From JL's link, "Another 2011 study at the University of Michigan and Ford Motor Company found enough resources to support global demand until 2100" or about the same amount of time as world wide uranium reserves.

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  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Rick C

How efficient is that? What's the savings?

I've considered waste-water heat recovery, to our water heater inlet, but it would be a big deal to install. Our incoming water is typically pretty cold.

Reply to
John Larkin

The better question is, say what? HRV AFAIK, is when you want to air out the house, you bring outside air in, pump inside air out, through a heat exchanger to reduce the loss. It's still a loss. To save energy, just don't do it. Never had to do it before, but now that energy efficient homes are being made ever more air tight, I guess if you're a farting tree hugger, you gotta do something.

Big deal, cost, maintenance and any savings is small.

Reply to
Whoey Louie

Oh, China is more flexible than you might think:

and international agreement on the issue means it's not just China. Agreements: something we haven't seen here in recent years, I kinda... miss that.

Reduction of CO2 is NOT the goal; a continuation of traditional climate patterns in order to preserve biodiversity and keep our fields, flocks, fisheries in health, is the goal. Reduction of CO2 is one pathway worth exploiting.

Reply to
whit3rd

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for

There's heat recovery and energy recovery. Heat recovery only works to cons erve house heat during heating season. Hence the Canadian mandate, that's d efinitely a mainly heating season place, or used to be before climate chang e. Energy recovery works both ways, conserving heat during heating season, and keeping heat out during cooling season. Both systems are to facilitate fresh air ventilation of the living space in new airtight construction. Las t time I checked, the Healthy House Institute, or some such, recommends com plete change out of the house air 3x over the course of 24 hours. That requ irement translates into a weak little fan in the 10-30 cfm range in most ca ses, not much. The efficiency should be pretty good as the heat exchange is this pricey th ing full of platinum. You look it up.

ge

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

s. It

for

It's not a heating system, it's a ventilation system. It provides fresh ai r without heating it up or cooling it down as much.

I see the system wikipedia shows includes a ground heat exchanger which are typically not inexpensive to install. In areas where water is plentiful t hey are more practical when water based rather than installation in the gro und.

ge

Commercial systems typically have fresh air requirements and so often inclu de such heat exchangers. I haven't seen where single family residential us es any sort of fresh air exchanges. Adding a system like this won't provid e any "savings" since the cost is not zero and with no system the cost is z ero.

Did I miss something about these systems?

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  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Rick C

The industry people call it the duck curve. The solar generation really messes with grid stability using anything other than the fast reacting peaker plants, which are all gas ISFAIK.

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Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

There's a bunch of stuff about using energy storage as a mitigation means for the duck curve:

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NREL has some words on it too (over-generalized as usual).

It seems lately that quite a few BIG solar projects are incorporating energy storage side-by-side. If they really have problems, they co-locate a gas fired peaker power plant with the solar.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

So much for load following nuclear then...

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  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Rick C

You got me on that one. lol I looked it up and everything. It's not even April.

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Reply to
Rick C

:

messes with grid stability using anything other than the fast reacting pea ker plants, which are all gas ISFAIK.

The really heavily vested players in Europe, Germany and France in particul ar, do make their nuclear load follow pretty well. But all the schemes they use, and there are several, end up being wasteful of fuel (nuclear), which they don't seem to care about much because it's one of their least conside rable overhead costs. But there is a big environmental concern with disposi ng of the waste. They don't think it is, but it is.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

John Larkin wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

As long as they are buying the turbines from GE, we should not complain, eh?

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Rick C wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

On another surge related topic... The boat fire.

They are saying that it may have been a battery fire that started it.

I have always not liked the idea that just any asshole can make a "USB compliant" charger that is not compliant because nobody is looking any more!

AND the devices' charging circuits are not regulated internally by design and mandate that they will NOT overcharge a battery. And maybe they should have thermal sensors as well, and maybe set off an alarm as the phone is being killed by whatever thermal rection going on. The loadest alarm the phone makes till it dies.

That captain should go to prison for not ensuring that there was an active, two man roving patrol at all times at night. The crew might be at a culpable level too.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Depends on outside temperature and a host of other factors. Can vary from about 65% to 91%.

Some more info:

How HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilation) Works

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HRV, Heat Recovery Ventilator in Air-Tight House

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Heat Recovery Efficiency

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Reply to
Steve Wilson

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