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Tahoe Donner is finally opening today.

http://portal.hdontap.com/s/embed/?stream=downhillDeck_tahoedonner&ratio16%:9

Sugar bowl has been partially open for a week or so.

https://www.sugarbowl.com/webcams#lightbox_webcams-1

It's been warm and wet in California, more rain than snow. The weather
here is very erratic from year to year, with no apparent long-term
patterns since good records were kept starting in the mid 1800s.

Judah Lodge, and Mt Judah, and the Judah Loop of the PCT, and Judah
Street in San Francisco, are named for Theodore Judah, a prime creator
of the transcontinental railroad and the associated telegraph lines to
the west coast. That's a cool story.



--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


ot opening day
No patterns??

See page 11 (page 26 pdf) of this link:

https://spatial.usc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Reed_Dustin.pdf

Re: ot opening day
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:35:01 -0800 (PST), Klaus Kragelund

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Snow depth at the Sierra summit has been measured the same way since
the mid-1800s. It's very erratic but has no obvious trend.

I don't much trust long-term temperature records. It's hard to measure
temperature, the sensors move, and the weather patterns on the US west
coast are very erratic. This year has so far been warm and wet.








--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: ot opening day
On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 11:15:35 AM UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

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Yeah, but... a summit is a small, non-representative bit of ground.   Bad
choice, neither 'average' nor 'random', if the intent is to gauge climate.

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Records are how you determine 'erratic', are they not?   How can you say you don't trust
them, then voice such a characterization?

Temperature is easy to measure.   Motion of sensors is not important, the
relativistic effects are not significant for normal earth, water and wind
velocities.

Re: ot opening day
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 5:04:29 PM UTC+11, whit3rd wrote:
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John Larkin take Anthony Watts seriously, and Anthony Watts has a bee in his bonnet about Stephenson screens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevenson_screen

It got him enough of a following to get him recruited into the denialist propaganda machine, and his ignorance is exploited by people who want to ignore historical temperature records.

https://skepticalscience.com/Anthony_Watts_blog.htm

You need to read John Larkin's posts about climate matters on the basis that he's a gullible sucker for denialist propaganda.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: ot opening day
wrote:

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We get our water from the snowmelt, after we ski on it, so it matters
long-term.

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I'm amazed I'd have to explain anything so simple, so I won't.



--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: ot opening day
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 3:10:03 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechn
ology.com wrote:
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chnology.com wrote:
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d
e.

But you don't get much of it from the snow-fall at the summit, which was th
e point being made.
  
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 you don't trust them, then voice such a characterization?
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The simplicity is all in John Larkin's ideas about what is going on (most o
f which he gets from denialist propaganda web-sites). He isn't going to exp
lain any of it because he can't do it for himself, and when he trots out hi
s authorities he gets reminded that he looks like a gullible twit.

His authority for not trusting historical records is Anthony Watts, who is  
part of the climate change denial propaganda machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts_ (blogger)

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: ot opening day
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 8:10:03 AM UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
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Amazed, no.   You're embarassed, because you've painted yourself into
an epistemological corner.   You can't deny the data AND use it both.

Re: ot opening day
wrote:

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Not a bit embarassed. The Sierra snow depth measurement data is
dependable, and the depth data is very noisy on the time scale of a
few years but has no strong trend.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tn5rypan1fyuul5/Snowpack_1879-2013.jpg?raw=1

This makes sense, since snow at any point is strongly affected by the
"atmospheric river" effect. 2011 was awesome. We skiied on the 4th of
July.

The global temperature record is, in my opinion, not likely to be
accurate. The instrumentation has changed, the collections sites have
moved, mostly to warmer locations, and the data has been corrected to
increase the warming trend.



--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: ot opening day
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 1:18:26 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
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Right. Quickly -- what's the accurate absolute temperature of <planet X>?
Now graph that over 200,000 years.

(If measuring temperature were simple they wouldn't need to constantly
adjust their raw data with 'correction' factors to correct for new errors,
nor would it take decades of fiddling with Finnegan's Finagling Factors
to figure those out.)

Cheers,
James

Re: ot opening day
On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 7:48:57 AM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wro
te:
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nology.com wrote:
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ptechnology.com wrote:
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u say you don't trust
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1

If you've got 800,000 years of ice core data, you can.

http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/ice-cores/ice-core-ba
sics/

"Past precipitation can be used to reconstruct past palaeoclimatic temperat
ures. ?D and ?18O is related to surface temperature at middle and
 high latitudes."  
  
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,

Nobody said that measuring temperatures in the remote past was simple.

Writing off the science involved as Finnegan's Finagling Factors is the kin
d of rhetorical fraud that James Arthur persistently practices.  

He doesn't like the results, so he lies about them. It's the same approach  
that claimed that Mann's "hockeystick" curve was fraudulent - and still doe
s even through it has been confirmed as essentially correct by a dozen diff
erent and completely independent studies using a variety of proxies for his
torical temperatures.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: ot opening day
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 12:48:57 PM UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

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Silly question; our planet has a molten core, you know, and... is not at
thermal equilibrium.   It doesn't HAVE a single temperature.   Neither do you
(unless you have died).

Climate change is serious stuff, we don't  need injected silliness.

Re: ot opening day

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  We need to manage our fresh water first, and AS we look at the  
effects we HAVE ALREADY caused, and try to mitigate some of what IS  
coming down the pike.  There are water starved nations all over the  
planet.

  On climate though...

  Essentially, we waited too long.  The window of opportunity to fix  
it completely has passed.  We ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED by our  
centuries long ignorance.  So all we are doing now is treating the  
symptoms of an already metastatized situation.

  Get all the greedy profiteers out of the picture and start doing  
productive change elements the world over.

  One step at a time.

Re: ot opening day
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 8:52:39 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
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Which was my point -- the overheated crowd constantly tout 'global'
temperature to supposedly account for all sorts of things they can't
possibly know.  It's next to meaningless.  Plus the propounders are
dishonest & unscrupulous, which doesn't help.
  
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I think we need a lot more -- the fact that one doesn't even dare
call it 'global warming' says that it's already pretty silly.


Cheers,
James Arthur

Re: ot opening day
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 1:57:33 PM UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:
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Not  meaningless, of course; all our habitation is at Earth's surface, the core temperature
is just as irrelevant to the environment of living beings as is the Sun.

That just means you have to understand the temperature of our climate
to be a weighted average, with the statistical weight on the surface of Earth's crust.

That weighted average has gone dangerously warm.   Climate change is considered
more accurate than 'global warming'  because it certainly IS the more correct phrase.

Re: ot opening day
On 18/12/19 9:23 am, whit3rd wrote:
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Oooh, the Sun's temperature is pretty important though...? Certainly  
will be here, tomorrow - heatwave coming...

Thermonuclear heating in the Earth's core is estimated to account for  
roughly 1% of all the Earth's net thermal flow (which amounts to roughly  
400W/m^2 averaged across the entire surface). That's about the same as  
the error with which we are able to measure the net thermal flow.

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Re: ot opening day
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 2:44:47 PM UTC-8, Clifford Heath wrote:
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\
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Yeah, I meant the temperature of the Sun's core; we don't see any
significant variations in the photosphere's light output, nor in the  
heat flow from Earth's core, and don't expect them, on the timescale
of concern for climate change.

Re: ot opening day
wrote:

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There is a strong correlation between earth average temp and sunspot
cycles. We are probably headed into an unusually low sunspot minimum,
which is associated with cold.

--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: ot opening day
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 11:52:11 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
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Cite?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_activity_and_climate

There are people who have made that claim, but they all seem to have been discredited.

The denialist propaganda sources that John Larkin relies on cite the papers that claim to have found such correlations, but reliably skip the follow-up papers that debunk them.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: ot opening day
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 4:52:11 PM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:

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The correlation is weak, and only verified for short times; since the heat
is generated hundreds of thousands of miles from the sun's surface where
the spots are, we can't expect sunspots to cause anything but a short-term
fluctuation, ever.

It's in the climate models, but isn't a big term.

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