OT: Nuclear Shutdown, 1 down and 1 more to go

Arizona thanks you. Palo Verde for the win!

Yea Team! ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85140   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Then again, if Arizona gets nuked, does anyone care?

Diablo Canyon is the one they built backwards. Uh, not that these nuclear engineers don't know what they are doing. Somebody switched their coffee to unleaded.

"Fault lines At the end of the 10-day civil disobedience, an engineer discovered a mirror image reversal in the seismic blueprints. PG&E had built one of its Diablo reactors backwards. The NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) approved the plant anyway."

The way I remember this, the engineer was a summer intern.

North Korea has big plans for Arizona?

North Korea doesn't even know that Arizona exists. But, when Californica goes, we become the coastal business area ;-) ...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85140 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Oh, the Japanese chose a bad site for their Fukushima plants, too. Actually, not so bad, generally, but putting them just a COUPLE meters above the ocean was pure insanity! Geez, the energy needed to pump the water 20 m up the hill would have been negligible! Then, they put all the safety electrical gear in the basement, where even an inside leak could have flooded it out! Then, safety-critical Diesel generators need ocean water cooling, which can be denied for a number of reasons, like tsunami or mechanical breakdown. They should have had an air-cooled generator for safety systems.

Jon

You sound like a lawyer, no matter the case, there is always fault and ignorance found.

So where was you and your friends before the tsunami hit? To warn them about this monstrosity design flaw.

Usually the case of trial and error with some designs, but as far as I understand it, if there was no pressing issues prior to, that was cause for alarm, then how could some one ridicule after the fact?

I can be certain that I know very little about the safety protocols that should be implemented with a nuclear facility. But there are those that do, and there are no facts that indicate an alarming condition that would of constituted a permanent shut down before that.

Because as you know, if all the proclaimed experts that come out after the facts, were actually that much of an expert before the facts, probability is high that those people would still be alive today.

I think most can agree that massive loss of life is a horrific event and many workers gave their life's so that others could go on, something you wouldn't see too much of over here with all the "It's all me attitude"

AFter such events, any one with the same designs should seriously reconsider the operation of them and others world wide should be applying pressure before another incidence like that manifest itself.

In the case of Japan, I don't think they have a lot of choices where to put a reactor.

They live with in their means.

Jamie

Oh noes! I'd better get out of here while I still can then, haha.

Do you have the Garbage Gestapo over there? Code Enforcement sent us (in a suburb near Sacramento) a nastygram saying that if we don't hide our trash cans *behind the fence* out of view (next to the garage is insufficient) w e will get fines. One neighbor who doesn't check his mail very often alrea dy racked up several hundred $$$ in fines.

I was kind of shocked to find your sales tax is north of 10% when we visite d Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon, but no place is perfect I guess.

Michael

Nope, engineer. I think properly-run (and designed, sited, etc.) nuclear plants have a good safety record.

Many plants of the same design as Fukushima dai-ichi #1 have been retired, as their safety systems were known to be VERY inadequate. There is only one of these plants still running in the US, and it has been heavily modified over the years to try to cope with design deficiencies, as they were discovered. It appears that a number of updates that were installed at other plants of the BWR 1 design were NOT implemented at dai-ichi #1, as it was expected to shut down in a year or two. There's a lot of the accident history that is not clear yet, but a number of investigators believe that #1 suffered a meltdown within a couple of hours of the station black-out.

#2 and #3 were a later design (BWR 2) and survived for almost

2 days using their own last-chance emergency systems (which #1 didn't have). #2 and #3 had a steam turbine run by the steam from the reactor's residual heat, and as long as the control valves for that system stayed open, it served to circulate water in the reactor, remove heat to a condenser on the roof, and replenish water in the reactor from the suppression torus under the reactor vessel. Only when the battery power failed did everything there go to hell. If the valves had been set up to just hold position until ordered to change via electrical command, those reactors would not have been damaged. But, they needed 120 v DC power to stay open. The amount of power to hold a couple vales open is tiny, a little gas generator like I have in my garage could have supplied it. But, they were all messed up with incompatible plugs and 50 vs. 60 Hz debacles, and couldn't accomplish any emergency procedures in two whole days.

#4 was blown up by hydrogen gas leaking through vent pipes from #3, its reactor was empty of fuel at the time.

#5 and #6 were saved by one air-cooled Diesel generator that kept all the safety systems operational through the disaster. Also, they were not as severely flooded by the tsunami.

But, Japan has known about the tsunami phenomenon for thousands of years, even our word "tsunami" is Japanese. Putting a nuclear plant right by the sea where DOCUMENTED previous tsunamis of similar magnitude have happened is just insane! The bottom of the plant should be well above the highest tsunami runup that has ever been seen. That whole siting thing is just irresponsible!

Jon

suburb near Sacramento) a nastygram saying that if we don't hide our trash cans

*behind the fence* out of view (next to the garage is insufficient) we will get fines. One neighbor who doesn't check his mail very often already racked up several hundred $$$ in fines.

Yep. We have that problem here as well. Little old ladies roam the neighborhood looking for something to report.

I do my own tree trimming early in the morning when the bitch is out running, so I befriend her, feed her a line about how her running has really trimmed up her "bod" (*)... and she leaves me alone >:-}

(*) Which isn't pushing it too much... she's probably 60, and has quite a nice body. But I'm 73, so to me, she's a young "chick" ;-)

Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon, but no place is perfect I guess.

You probably were in one of those areas with a "hotel tax" to soak it to the tourists. I'm in a 6.7% area. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85140   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

6% here, and no state income tax.

I paid $0 income tax to Arizona last year, and got back $1177 from NY, and $80 back from the Feds. Most of my retirement income is not taxable. ...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85140 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Nice! No state income tax, huh!

We got some fast food at Kingman and I noticed the sales tax was somewhat north of 10%. Not sure if it's a fast food tax, or if Kingman is in a high sales tax area, or what. Similar story for Flagstaff... visited the Lowell Observatory.

That stretch of Hwy 93 between the Hoover Dam and Kingman is impressively desolate. I told my 11-year-old son he could put his spaceport there. If his spaceship crashes it's highly unlikely he'd hurt anyone on the ground XD

...

n a suburb near Sacramento) a nastygram saying that if we don't hide our tr ash cans *behind the fence* out of view (next to the garage is insufficient ) we will get fines. One neighbor who doesn't check his mail very often al ready racked up several hundred $$$ in fines.

Oh it's not just a California thing then, huh.

suburb near Sacramento) a nastygram saying that if we don't hide our trash cans

*behind the fence* out of view (next to the garage is insufficient) we will get fines. One neighbor who doesn't check his mail very often already racked up several hundred $$$ in fines.

Homeowner's Associations ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85140   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

s (in a suburb near Sacramento) a nastygram saying that if we don't hide ou r trash cans *behind the fence* out of view (next to the garage is insuffic ient) we will get fines.  One neighbor who doesn't check his mail very of ten already racked up several hundred $$$ in fines.

e

-Lasse

If only Japan had mountains. Oh wait....

But nuclear power needs water. In Arizona, being an arid zone, uses treated sewage water.

San Onofre was 2200MW when both reactors were working. But these green power projects are nothing to sneeze at.

They are all in the 200MW to 900MW range. And no Price Anderson required:

I also see Telsa has paid back their loans. I think the world could use a few more Elon Musk's. OK, I'm not so impressed with Paypal, but his other ventures are uber geeky.