OT: Honda Thinks Hybrids Are Good Enough

ied vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

bjective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

he goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inh erently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?

e because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery veh icles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different r egulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it? ??s a must to continue R&D. But I don?t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

cles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility i n Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the is sues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indee d insurmountable.

rony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the vari ous vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus w ith a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could ha ve become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

Maybe this is a different Honda: https://global.honda/innovation/FuelCell.html

ied vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

bjective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

he goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inh erently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?

e because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery veh icles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different r egulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it? ??s a must to continue R&D. But I don?t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

cles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility i n Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the is sues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indee d insurmountable.

rony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the vari ous vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus w ith a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could ha ve become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

Not arguing with you, but want to point out that Honda and Tesla serve very different market segments, so their current stance isn't totally unexpecte d.

ied vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

bjective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environmental regulations.

he goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inh erently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fossil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?

I say he gets it. Better fuel economy does directly reduce carbon emissions. Are you so radical that even a small, limited use gas engine is unacceptable? A small, gas engine that makes the car actually PRACTICAL, so that more people will buy it? Is it better that consumers buy a Honda plug-in hybrid or a ICE vehicle? If you want to charge it mostly with AC, go ahead. If the car is dead and you need to go on a trip right now, you can. Sounds great to me. Besides, Honda, unlike radicals, has to actually sell them.

e because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery veh icles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different r egulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it? ??s a must to continue R&D. But I don?t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

cles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility i n Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the is sues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable problem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is indee d insurmountable.

Still building cars, that's where.

There's some irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a major auto company can't see that.

It's amazing that zealots like you are zealots and can't accept real progress that is reducing emissions. No, it's not that lots of things can help, leave people and companies free to choose what fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highway.

Whoey Louie wrote in news:52ca02b9-d062-4554- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Yeah... you've never exhibited that behavior.

Batteries work. Eventually we will adopt a system that allows for zero emmissions traveling. There will be entire cities where gas driven and large vehicles will not enter, and the large truck deliveries will get handled at the city fringes, but will not enter.

Pretty much will be cash free as well, so no more robberies with that motive.

ified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand fo r hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. A nd we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environment al regulations.

the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are i nherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of foss il fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?

ure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery v ehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it? ??s a must to continue R&D. But I don?t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

hicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in th e US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable proble m going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is ind eed insurmountable.

irony here. I have trouble tracking the minimal efforts put out by the va rious vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

g reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a majo r auto company can't see that.

ry different market segments, so their current stance isn't totally unexpec ted.

Exactly! Honda can't see beyond their market segment while the world need to end carbon pollution. It's not actually about Honda vs. Tesla, but all polluting companies against the world.

ified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand fo r hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. A nd we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environment al regulations.

the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are i nherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of foss il fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?

The goal is not "reducing" CO2 emissions. It is to eliminate them. Are yo u also a climate change denialist? Or do you understand we need to cut CO2 emissions to zero?

What is limited use about it??? It propels the car even if through the bat tery and electric motor. They get lower CO2 emissions, but not low enough. Do you want to put the exhaust gasses in your home?

I'm not going to try to educate you on EVs since you have an obvious bias. You do misrepresent the issues, but since you do it knowingly, no point in discussing it with you.

ure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery v ehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it? ??s a must to continue R&D. But I don?t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

hicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in th e US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable proble m going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is ind eed insurmountable.

t out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of th e Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locall y. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stu ck with it.

g reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a majo r auto company can't see that.

You are the sort of person who switches to low tar cigarettes rather than q uitting. Ok, I got it.

No need to ban large vehicles. There are several companies designing large semi trucks as EVs, Tesla among them. You've not seen any of these in the press? All the large trucking companies are signed up to test drive them because they offer lower costs.

Rick C is a stereotype of an out-of-touch "coastal elite leftist"; he seems to have very little conception about how the vast majority of Americans live their lives or how much money they have to spend on things or how they buy cars or what they do with the ones they have.

Doesn't seem to understand the concept of "market segments" or that 70% of Americans have difficulty paying the rent/mortgage on time, much less paying cash for new automobiles off the lot. And the vast majority of them sure as shit aren't factoring in "eliminating carbon emissions" as a purchase goal when they think about what car to get.

They're not trying to compete with Tesla because Tesla has cornered the market of Tesla buyers pretty effectively.

Rick C wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Not banning them or cars. Just will not be allowed to pass the city perimeter. The city itself is heavy machinery free. No concrete and steel, bullets or bars. It will be a learning mecca.

With the most learned thing being about how to move electrons around when and where we want them and how forcefully. Photons too. No cars or trucks or any ICE machinery at all.

I have always thought that leaf blowers are lame. We have enough dust and don't need to be kicking up even more on a daily basis.

On 2020-01-07 23:08, snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote: [...]

Agree! Moreover, around here these things use noisy stinking two-stroke engines. Disgusting!

Jeroen Belleman

But Joe Sixpack not going full-electric immediately is like, "morally wrong", or something.

ified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand fo r hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. A nd we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environment al regulations.

the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are i nherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of foss il fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?

The problem is that we have to reduce carbon emissions fast, and to a rathe r low level - about half a ton of CO2 per person per year.

A hybrid is a step in the right direction, but doesn't take us as far as we have to go.

ure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery v ehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it? ??s a must to continue R&D. But I don?t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.

hicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in th e US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facility in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about the issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable proble m going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is ind eed insurmountable.

And mostly electric cars, like everybody else.

t out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 of th e Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving locall y. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stu ck with it.

g reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a majo r auto company can't see that.

Real progress is good, but it needs to take us to zero emissions, and the s ooner the better. Australia's bush-fires make the point that even the globa l warming we've had so far is creating very real problems, and we need to stop the warming as fast as we can.

e to choose what fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highway.

One of the side effects of the bushfires currently burning in eastern Austr alia is that a lot of highways have been temporarily blocked.

People can burnt to death by driving through a bushfire as it crosses a roa d.

It nearly happened to me back in 1968 - I drove through bushfire smoke, and fifteen minutes later people who thought that that was what they were doin g ended up in flames and dead.

Your way has more risks than you seem to realise.

The people I know under 30 for the most part aren't planning on working hard for 20 years to save up for a luxury Tesla electric car and their opinion of Elon Musk tends to be highly negative.

what they seem to be planning is the overthrow of the government, the mass execution or imprisonment of the heads of Facebook, Google, Tesla, the auto and petroleum industry, and the Wall Street financial industry, and the immediate halt to production of ICE cars by fiat.

Why drag the process out over 30 years of incremental innovations and improvements/adaptations and lose the fight anyway when ideally you could get the result you want in a few weeks.

No one said "immediately". It will take time for sure. Lots of design wor k to do, lots of factories to convert. Lots of research to improve batteri es. But it is all within grasp at this point. In fact, like a locomotive rolling downhill, very, very hard to even slow down.

Hell, even GM is partnering with Bechtel to design and construct a charging network.

I saw an article that said NJ is passing legislation to construct a chargin g network along highways with stations 25 miles apart. That is the sort of presence that is needed to make the average joe/jane believe EVs are real.

Oh yeah, I would also note that I don't actually recommend that people buy EVs today. I think for the average joe/jane they would do better to wait a few more years for EVs to become more mainstream. I think at that point t here will be better choices for cars (or at least more good choices) and th ey will be more integrated/common so there will be more facilities. But if someone wants to take the leap, it's not like it's a stupid idea.

trified vehicles by 2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still undeveloped?

he objective is not electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the way to abide by different environme ntal regulations.

't the goal at all. Eliminating carbon emissions is the goal. Hybrids are inherently flawed in that for most people they still require burning of fo ssil fuel. If not, why have the gasoline motor at all?

ather low level - about half a ton of CO2 per person per year.

s we have to go.

ers

sure because there are lots of issues regarding infrastructure and hardwar e. I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are differe nt regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it ?s a must to continue R&D. But I don?t believe it will beco me mainstream anytime soon.

vehicles. Tesla continues to geometrically increase production of BEVs in the US as they start production in China and begin construction on a facili ty in Germany as other EV companies expand as well. He also talks about th e issues of "infrastructure" as if that were somehow an insurmountable prob lem going forward. I guess if you do nothing about a problem, then it is i ndeed insurmountable.

s put out by the various vendors, but it seems Honda themselves built 300 o f the Honda EV Plus with a 80 to 100 mile range, pretty good for driving lo cally. That could have become the basis for the Corolla killer if they had stuck with it.

ing reasons, hybrids are not the way forward. It's amazing the CEO of a ma jor auto company can't see that.

he sooner the better. Australia's bush-fires make the point that even the g lobal warming we've had so far is creating very real problems, and we need to stop the warming as fast as we can.

free to choose what fits their needs. No, it's the old my way or the highw ay.

ustralia is that a lot of highways have been temporarily blocked.

road.

and fifteen minutes later people who thought that that was what they were doing ended up in flames and dead.

I think all that says a lot more about you and the people you know than it does Facebook, Google, Tesla or anyone in this group.

I would also point out that what you wrote here sounds a bit like you have been smoking something stronger than your usual weed. You should avoid the stuff with the extra kick.

Incidentally my software-industry contact in the Middle East claims US strike aircraft from the UAE are inbound to Iran at this time.

Well I may be glad I've got one at the moment, such as it is

Yes, absolutely necessary, and no more stinking big mobile T-bombs. Vote for me, i'll push it in California.

Well I didn't give them any of it they must be getting their own. Real Communists tend to make more interesting discussion partners than the usual broken-records repeating tired Ayn Randian platitudes you find around here. Yeah they'll probably get me too by association but at least I'll die laughing.

Jeroen Belleman wrote in news:qv2vvi$1h5a$1 @gioia.aioe.org:

enough

Huge waste of hundreds (thousands?) of gallons of fuel a day.

The dust thing is also a problem. That could be where the thing that kills us all is lying around waiting to be stirred up, or a morph of an existing thing. Humans do some really stupid things in the name of convenience or comfort. I have no problem with that unless it affects me or other people OR critters negatively. Cannot buy or *have* comfort if it involves harm of others, and ignoring it (the things our brain tells us) should be a lake of fire level offense.