OT: global warming tax & refund proposal

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Page 17: McKitrick=92s proposal suggests a carbon tax whose rate is linked to actual global temperatures =96 specifically, it would be linked to the temperature of the tropical troposphere, which is precisely where the UN's scientists says the primary CO2 "fingerprint" is to be found...

But it=92s a =91tax=92 with serious advantages to producers, since it calls the bluff of those who want producers strangled. Because if the warmists are wrong, and temperatures go down, then it=92s not a tax, but a refund!

I like it...

Michael

Reply to
mrdarrett
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There is a significant phase delay in global means. In terms of control theory, this is VERY BAD. Try to imagine controlling a very long, thin, flexible, bamboo pole and poking it into a tiny hole in a bird house 100' away. It's kind of like that.

It's a LOT better to get up close and use a shorter stick.

Okay. So this changes the subject from "actual global temperatures" to "temperature of the tropical troposphere." Which is it?

In any case, I'd like a citation. The tropical troposphere is precisely where there is the LEAST _temperature_ sensitivity. It is exactly the place where, coupled with the phase delay, one would select if one is really trying hard to avoid doing anything at all.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

He mentioned "UN's scientists"... kinda vague too, I'm agreeing with you.

I'm curious to see what the SOHO solar radiation data look like since

1995...
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SOHO is near a Lagrangian point about 930,000 miles from Earth.

Michael

Reply to
mrdarrett

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The temperatures ARE going down but try and find a warmingist who'll admit it !

Graham

-- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address

Reply to
Eeyore

I dare say you're correct. That means the earth started cooling in the recent term probably decades ago.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

I just read through a report (and for the darnest reasons I just cannot remember enough from it to find it, again [I've read almost a dozen, in the last week]) that provided a beautiful chart showing on the y-axis earth latitudes from -90 to +90 and on the x-axis, time both in the past and towards the future, with iso-lines illustrating the effects versus latitude and ensemble results into the near future, with of course empirical measurements for the recent past. And it neatly showed that the equatorial troposphere (memory serving) has the least impact.

If I remember where I put that thing, I'll cite it. For now, it's in fresh memory but no more than that. (Charts are easy to remember in mind.)

I'm not sure why that's interesting, relative to the McKitrick proposal. Is this about TSI? I recall some discussion (minor impact, most agree) regarding PMOD and stitching together ACRIM data.

I'm aware.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

If you're going to do cooling refunds just create a market in temperature futures; bet on whichever side you wish. One, the AGW nuts won't because AGW isn't the point. Two, governments won't allow it because they want the TAXES (hint: no refunds).

Reply to
krw

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Better yet, take OUR LEADER's idea of painting roads white to reduce Global Warming (gotza bee inn capz); all businesses that contribute to that get a corresponding taz write-off...

Reply to
Robert Baer

Why not just put a tax on oil equal to the entire cost of the oil related spending on the US military. US war ships are used to keep the shipping lanes in middle east open so that my neighbor can drive his ugly SUV down to the corner to buy beer. Why should my taxes help support that jerks drinking habit?

Reply to
MooseFET

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What a concept! Paint buildings white...

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Glare could be a concern... and if Global Warming isn't really happening, we could be in for a cooldown... plus costs for paint, sunglasses... :D

Thanks,

Michael

Reply to
mrdarrett

Oh, can you get into trouble that way... ;-)

A couple of years ago, shortly after we moved into this house, we re-painted it. We took the old beige base color, and painted it the white that was the original trim. We then painted the trim red.

A few weeks later we got the letter from the builder (the local association) claiming that the neighbors were complaining that we had changed the color scheme of the neighborhood!

We stalled and played politics, and didn't have to re-paint.

It has also reduced our air conditioning costs by about 20%!

Charlie

Reply to
Charlie E.

At our previous house I replaced the original Arizona-style rock roof with foam... so white you'd go "snow blind" without dark glasses.

Just about halved our A/C costs!

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

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I'm wondering why the Chief Scientist would only propose changing the roof color, and not the whole building color (or at least the sides of the building facing the sun). The sun is not directly overhead for very long, after all..

How did you manage to play the politics to your favor? I'm happy I don't live in a HOA neighborhood.

We painted our first house (which was yellow) white on the south and east sides. (West side was too difficult to paint - I hate heights! - and North side never sees the sun.) I really could feel the temperature difference when I placed my hands on the white and yellow parts of the wall.

Our air conditioning costs didn't change much though. I figured it was because the insulation between the outside and inside walls didn't cause much of the heat to penetrate inside.

Did your house have insulation between the walls?

Always looking for new ideas,

Michael

Reply to
mrdarrett

Well, we do have decent insulation, but we get some pretty extreme temperatures around here... ;-)

We managed the politics because, at the same time that our house was being painted, the builder was applying to the planning commision to change his house plans. This had most of the community up in arms (and we think that one of the reasons for the complaints was all the other hubbub going on just gave them a reason to bring us up as well!) and we were sympathetic to the builder, and even spoke up in his support at the meeting. Then, we just kept putting off meeting with his rep about the issue until the whole thing blew over!

Charlie

Reply to
Charlie E.

Foam? Cool. I mean, neato. What kind? It'd have to be some tough to survive out in the AZ sun...

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
James Arthur

calls

Around 2" of polyurethane (IIRC), topped with a blindingly white epoxy coating, which requires re-"painting" every 5 years. But very effective. Most of my present house is tile, but the area over the kitchen and patio is flat with foam, then covered with 7 solar panels (water heating for the swimming pool :-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

Thanks for the info!

James

Reply to
James Arthur

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Nice.

Are you in Arizona? I'm in Sacramento, but we get ~100F temps here too.

Michael

Reply to
mrdarrett

I would think the objection to tax money spending would be on spending it to help a driving habit rather than a drinking one. Need to start and drive an SUV to get beer from a place down at the corner appears to me to be a driving problem rather than a drinking one; as in need to drive through an opportunity to get some of the physical exercise that too many people need and refuse to get.

However, if he needs to drive an SUV to get "down to the corner" to get beer because of mental condition after having had some, then his problem is or at least includes DUI.

Or does his SUV have electronics that he enjoys? If so, why do his enjoyable electronics have to be limited to being in an SUV? If I needed or wanted entertaining electronics to make it down to the corner to get beer, I would hope such electronics would not require an SUV to carry - otherwise, they would disturb the neighbors and/or be something so spectacular as to be a distraction from driving.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

Reply to
Don Klipstein

dition.pdf

calls

Oh Hell, not another AGW thread. Post us some electronics instead.

Reply to
JosephKK

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