It took generations to build the EU, it will take a bunch of misplaced morons to destroy it.
Dimiter
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A great deal of care would have to be taken at the design stage to ensure that the system couldn't be hacked so as a allow a malicious person to disable cars at will. If any require encryption key is held in hardware installed in each police car, it would surely be leaked/compromised sooner or later. Systems with a better protected centrally stored encryption key would be more complicated and expensive.
It would likely be difficult to prevent the system from simply being jammed. OK for stopping joy-riders, but not professional criminals.
Sylvia.
They actually have mini EMPGs that scramble the ECM in a car whichg will ma ke it stall. That has to be aimed at it, it is indiscriminatory. There is a lso a defense.
The problem here is how to make it stop the CORRECT car. what, the license number goes into a database and it comes back with a code for that car ? Wh at if the plates are on the wrong car ? What if the plates are not on the c ar at all ?
Surely it can't be as simple as the plate number gets punched in, that woul d make for a big mess. Then what, the VIN ? Wrong plates takes care of that as well.
Concievably an antenna could be installed in the back of cars that has a hi ghly directional pickup pattern, that way if the cops are behind it, they c an stop it. Of course an adept bank robber readying the getaway vehicle or even a fast car thief could make it a point to disable the antenna.
Engineering wise I see alot of different ways this can be accomplished, but upon further thought, each is fraught with undesirable possibilities.
Blondestar has a similar feature:
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
-- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
On a sunny day (Thu, 30 Jan 2014 18:22:44 -0800 (PST)) it happened dp wrote in :
That is nothing, next will be the remote kill chip, implanted into every newborn and adult.
Just in case the local supermarket detector sees a terrorist.
I am counting on WW3 to fix all this.
Proof of concept and prototype has already been done there is a military grade version already available. It is a lot better than stopping a car than by putting armour piercing rounds through the engine block.
Basically a highly directional resonant targeted noise source that scrambles the signals to the engine management unit. There is a dead zone near BMEWS site 3 that kills some Jaguar cars stone dead in the sidelobes of the phased array. The commercial kit is called Safe-Stop and it is a lot more effective than a Stinger where the bad guys can continue to drive on wheel rims for quite a while.
No! It is the other way round - the hard part is avoiding collateral damage like stopping all the cars within the beam. And yes professional criminals could easily use the same technology for kidnap and worse.
You would need to Tempest proof the entire car electronics or have an entirely manual physical linkages, classical distributor and mechanical cam valve timing with no sensitive electronics there to be disturbed.
Vintage e-Type Jag getaway cars may make a come-back for instance.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
Given that the (US) military neglected to encrypt the video on their drones, I'm not that military grade says much.
I was thinking more of the economic damage that could be done if someone hacks the system. Not many cars need to be stopped on each major road during the rush hour to bring a city to its knees. Given that the system presumably has to be resistant to tampering (otherwise, what's the point?), it would likely take considerable time to modify millions of vehicles so as to render the hack ineffective.
Sylvia.
Now *there* is a bright idea! Many chillingly interesting sci-fi scenarios spring to mind!
Jeroen Belleman
Anyone with malintent and the requisite RF skills could potentially make one now - you might get caught practising with it though. The dead zone for Jaguars near BMEWS Site 3 demonstrates how it would work.
You are assuming that it is a keyed shutdown (which the new proposal seems to be).. I don't fancy that - criminals are bound to hack it.
The present kit is closer to broadband interference tailored to the electronics wiring harness resonances of the vehicle model that they want to disable. Pulsed high power RF in a directional beam you only need a short burst to stall an engine and some selectivity. And if in doubt about the model using more power will probably work.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
I wanted to post something in that sense but you were faster :).
It is amazing how obvious everything is and how hopelessly helpless we are to fix at least part of it.
Dimiter
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The issue with doing it now is the likely range with a device that has to be both portable and concealable. It's not as if a perpetrator (or group thereof) can reasonably expect to get away with using something that's powerful enough to disrupt the normal operation of a vehicle's processor from a safe distance.
That's what I'm saying.
I can't imagine a practical law-enforcement device working that way.
Sylvia.
Years ago, TI was a client and asked how to 'fix' the radiation susceptibility on their oil pressure plug; the requirement was that the plug had to be rated/tested to 'Engine compartment' levels. Which meant the plug had to operate in a field of 300 V/m up to 1GHz [anybody working in RFI/EMI knows that is pretty husky and difficult level to ignore, The only Test Lab capable of generating these levels was located in Germany.] For example, most electronics are designed to work in fields up to 10 V/m, rarely over 30V/m, sometimes to spec, sometimes glitch and then return to normal operation when field is gone.
To put potential EMP disruption into context, consider a nuclear device exploded in high altitude [70.000ft?] will generate upwards of 50kV/m over a 200 to 400 mile diameter over that same spectrum. No wonder our state dept doesn't want nuclear weapons in terrorists' hands! A Surface to Air Missile launching a nuclear device to explode at high altitude could wipe out a lot of electronics over quite a wide range. Back to my questions:
Are you saying it is possible to create larger fields than that at a distance? Or, are you saying, there is a 'weakness' in the wiring harness making it susceptible to 'generating' conducted disruptive waveforms? ...which makes more sense.
So, just how much power? 10W spike, or 100W, or 1kW? to put that power into perspective: when you start your engine it takes 12 Vdc at 100-200+ Amps, or around 1-2kW. So, powered by a deep discharge vehicular battery you could put quite a wallop into that noise spike.
What kind of antenna luanches a beamed energy [is that FM'ed or AM'ed?] modulated with noise over the required bandwidth with that much power? Let's see, free space is 377 ohms so to transfer 2 kw of power means 870 volts, just above arcing ranges. Yeah it's doable. But to get beamed, implies a narrower bandwidth than 'noise'. Is there some bandwidth the harness, or any wiring is sensitive to? Or, is the conversion from radiated to conducted enough to disrupt? Like launch energy at the engine, the harness acts like a receiver converting the signal to actual voltages, and THAT voltage is what 'confuses' the engine computer?
But what kind of antenna can launch broadband energy that effectively? Small enough to carry on all Pursuit Cars? Hmmm, assuming the WIDTH of a car, to 'beam' requires less than a few wavelengths across the front, so the Tx would have to be above 1200 MHz, Hmmm, a nice horn antenna could launch 6-8 GHz, which is practically IMPOSSBLE to shield from that signal could get into everything.
How is it done?
,snip>
Hmm, can I get a little "onstar protected" sticker to go on my car. (But not have it installed/activated) Just enough disincentive to make the criminals move on to the next vehicle. (Well who'd want to steal my 2002 Corolla?)
George H.
No need of sci-fi high tech implants when the kill chip can be installed into something people would be convinced to carry for they safety or health. Or after some well conceived PR campaign, because they have nothing to hide.
I'm not so sure about that. Nobody profits from wars except the rich and powerful, the same people who are deciding on that stuff.
What I'm sure of, a lot of dystopic political scifi novels I've read as a kid are becoming more and more plausible.
What if the innocent driver on the wrong car, or a hostage on the right one carries a pacemaker?
This is a disaster waiting to happen, all in the name of getting more and more control over common people.
Are you like 80 years old or something?
1) Fylindales a been reworked to an active phased array, i.e. T/R modularized antenna; 2) Modern cars with critical functions under electronic control cannot be disrupted by the far field radiation leakage off boresight enough to not only engulf the vehicle but also overcome all the shielding and filtering.
Simplest way is to shut off the driver, and not the car.
It is not about stopping the car, things like that are about more control people have to accept and pay for. What they will do will be straight forward; e.g. each car must be online if on the road and will be stoppable by the "authorities" on a mouse click. Jan already suggested the next step, an implant so we are all online and the authorities can shut anyone down on a mouse click or whatever the simplest 1 bit interaction at the time is.
Sounds too dystopic? Wait to see how the real thing outclasses our imagination.
Dimiter
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In the US anyway, the Police already a deployed piece of hardware capable of disabling and stopping a motor car: a 357 Magnum, which was designed for that purpose (and not for Dirty Harry). No fancy high tech required.
Joe Gwinn
Right, Dirty Harry wouldn't be caught dead with a peashooter like that. ;-)
DH had a .44Mag. ;-)
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