OT: Disk "imaging" SW

E.g., Clonezilla can deal with the disk "as is" without requiring itself to be installed on that disk, under that OS, etc. The tool I seek should let me create images of "any" disk -- even those that have *no* OS!

Acronis True Image 2013. About $50. One machine gets the install, but the Recovery CD can be used to clone or image any number of other machines. Speed is about 1GByte/minute for older slow machines, to 5GBytes/sec for restore from USB 3.0 drives.

Unfortunately, recovery is not as simple as I would like. It asks a series of useless questions and offers no means to provide canned answers. Fortunately, everything is done with scripts so modifications are possble. However, I just hand people a step by step procedure to follow, which methinks is good enough.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Don Y Inscribed thus:

Simply create a self booting installation CD/DVD aka Live Linux CD. Add a script to format the HD and then copy the image.

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Best Regards: 
                        Baron.

This *looks* like it only works on Windows machines?

I.e., can I install it on a Windows machine. Then, pull the disk from a Linux machine. "Somehow" connect that disk to the Windows machine and use the tool to create an image of the Linux disk burning this onto a DVD(s). Then, carry that DVD over to the Linux machine with a BLANK disk installed, *boot* from that DVD and have the Linux image restored onto that blank disk? So, the *next* boot (with the DVD removed) allows me to have Linux "restored" on that machine?

It will do a block by block image copy to/from Linux. That means you have to do the restore a disk that's the same size or larger, and then use GParted to expand the partition to fill the drive. That's too much for basic users.

Instead of suggesting how it is to be used, could you describe what you're trying to accomplish? You can create the Recovery CD only on a Windoze machine if that's what you're asking. If you're distributing mixed multiboot operating system, I don't think this is the right tool.

Incidentally, you'll also have problems booting the CD on a Secure Boot UEFI machine.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

The same sort of issues are present in Clonezilla. If you know what you are doing, you *can* clone to a smaller disk. This is important because a given vendor's XXX capacity disk may be slightly

*smaller* than another XXX capacity disk. And, you don't find out about this until you are in the box of *needing* to restore to this "slightly smaller" disk, etc.

The way *I* use Clonezilla is:

- install some stuff on machine X under OS

- boot Clonezilla on machine X

- image the disk and/or selected partitions onto an external disk (most often USB though could also be over the wire)

- repeat

This leaves me with a set of images representing machine X with varying bits of stuff installed. I can then roll back to any of these snapshots at a future date by booting Clonezilla and restoring the appropriate image. When I reboot the native OS, the machine doesn't know that it's been brainwashed -- it just thinks some amount of calendar time has elapsed since it's last boot (in that configuration!)

E.g., for a windows machine, the snapshots are:

- 1 after installing Windows from CD/DVD

- 2 after installing the machine specific drivers

- 3 after downloading the most recent set of updates

- 4 after installing a core set of basic utilities

- 5 after installing the first set of applications

- 6 after installing the complete set of applications

So, I can restore image 3 to another machine having identical hardware.

I can restore image 4 to end up with a generic machine (not tailored to any particular set of applications)

I can restore image 6 to end up with the application-specific set of tools intended to run on this machine.

I.e., after image 6, any imaging of the disk is more like a "routine backup".

I would like to be able to give myself the same flexibility when building these machine for the nonprofit. In particular, depending on the OS, it could make building N "identical" machines as simple as building *one* and then just copying ("restoring") the image to the other N-1 machines!

[I can do this now with Clonezilla, etc.]

What I would like to be *able* to do is give the students (ultimate owners of the machines) the ability to restore the image that was present on the machine WHEN THEY RECEIVED IT.

Past experience has shown me that what ends up happening is someone fails to practice "safe computing" and brings a machine back complaining it is "broken". Of course, it's just loaded with malware. This invariably eats up the better part of a day to try to recover as much of "their files" as possible. Then, reload the OS and apps. Finally, transfer the salvaged "personal files" back onto the machine.

[Note that *keeping* images of each such machine can quickly become impractical! There are just too many going out the door!]

And, wait for the next time they screw things up!

[Of course, they are always in a state of panic because they need the machine to finish their homework, write a paper, etc.]

The other problem that comes up is disks die. If you are reinstalling from scratch (which takes *hours* per machine), then the new disk only has to be large enough for the OS plus apps.

If, instead, I can deliver a DVD(s) with each machine that allows the *student* to restore his own "image" (when his machine gets "infected"), then I can remove myself from this loop. And, for those cases where there has been a disk failure, the student could bring the machine in ALONG WITH THE IMAGE DVD and "someone" could restore it to a "new" disk -- even a slightly smaller one (as long as the "in use" portion of the disk fits on the new media)

As yet, I don't know how many *different* machine types I will have to deal with (obviously, I would like for them all to be Model XYZ to make my life as easy as possible!). Nor do I know how many different *licenses* I will have to deal with! Or, how willing they will be to upgrade the licenses to some "common/recent" point (e.g., a W7 license is $8 but lots of $8's add up to thousands of dollars! Plus "office" suite fees, etc.)

I want a solution that looks the same for all "students" so the nonprofit can have who just knows how to talk them through the "restore" procedure without having to figure out what model PC they have, what OS, etc.

Since this is linux, do you really want to overwrite the /home partition? That is, have them lose everything?

Clonezilla does some foo, i.e. it is not a perfect clone. But Ghost for linux is just DD and it does a perfect clone. It seems you could just DD your linux image to / .

I just ran into this problem. It is severe. I found the only motherboard that does not use UEFI is made by Supermicro. Phil Hobbs uses the server version. I checked and found the only version that is available from online companies like NCIX is the Supermicro C7H61:

Reg. Price: $177.67 CAD

"

"

(Sorry for the wrap)

Nobody actually carries it. You have to place an order and wait for them to make it. Also, the H61 chipset is the bottom rung of chipsets made by Intel. It is used in $50 dollar motherboards made by Foxconn. The Supermicro is badly overpriced, but right now it seems to be the only option if you want to avoid wasting your money on the UEFI debacle.

I expect the board to be deliverd in the next few weeks. I will post any results that may be of interest to the group.

JK

Methinks you just presented the solution, and i quote: "I can always script Clonezilla and bend it towards the 'one click restore' model."

Garbage in, garbage out. I've had the same problem when the FAT was corrupted before cloning or when I had to deal with bad sectors. For what it's worth, I've been using it since about 2008 and have had minimal problems. Before that, it was really awful software.

Well yeah, tech support sucks.

Acronis 2013 build 5551 didn't work with Windoze 8 and didn't work at all with a UEFI boot. Built 6541 fixed those but has problems getting the boot sector correct. Run the boot repair from the Win 8 DVD and that will fix the boot.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Be advised, that the name "Acronis True Image" gives a totally FALSE impression. I bought it. I used it in the clone mode. The resulting copy was almost trash. Partition designations (the byte that sez FAT, Extended, HPFS, etc) were altered to give unreadable (obscene?) partitions, drive labels got moved to unreadable (obscene?) places, directories got scrambled...i could go on but you get the picture. I complained, and they came up with the most absurd meaningless excuses, one of which was related to Win8 which at the time was in beta, and only after the third complaint did they give an "improved" version that was just as bad. In a three-month period, the only thing they came up with were more meaningless and un-related excuses. I tossed their crap and got my nickel back.

It is extremely hard to beat the FASTER and ACCURATE performance of Clonezilla or the Ultimate Boot CD.

Have you seen what Clonezilla looks like to the "computer illiterate"? Just watching the console messages scroll past in "microprint" would initimidate most folks. And, what if it fails to boot completely, etc.? Some Linux technobabble that would mean absolutely nothing to a young kid?

This, IMnsHO is why Linux keeps shooting itself in the foot as it tries to make inroads into the "mass market". Imagine if cars could only be driven by automechanics (because all the information was conveyed to the driver in "autospeak" and you had fine control over fuel mixture, spark advance, etc.

:<

I was hoping some turnkey solution already existed that was geared towards casual users. E.g., like the "restore" partition on many machines...

Who said it was Linux? *Clonezilla* is linux based (currently) but note I didn't specify a "target OS" -- just the ability to "image a disk" (and restore it).

When I build a system, I use Clonezilla to image the disk at key points in the installation (particularly for Windows

----------------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ machines!). This works fine for me as I know what the "program" is doing, its limitations, etc. And, know technospeak as well as how to make whatever bits of kit I happen to want to throw at the task *compatible* with it.

I didn't ask to clone a disk. Just "take an image" -- and, later, be able to restore it. But, do so with ZERO technical knowledge.

As partclone (on which Clonezilla relies) looks at the filesystem and *not* the raw disk device, it is *possible* that cruft "hidden" in "unused" portions of the file system will not be imaged. I can live with that as any other third party tool that manipulated that filesystem could "corrupt" that hidden artifact.

Clonezilla *does* track the partition table/boot sector, the contents of the rest of the first track, etc. And, as it doesn't dd(1) the entire raw device, it can create images that are more representative of the amount of USED space in the filesystem being imaged.

E.g., I'd hate to have to keep a 500GB image when only 6GB was actually in use!

The machines I will be dealing with are typically 1-3 years old. They have usually reached the end of their "mainstream" service life (at places where hardware update cycles are in the 12-36 mo range) and are "wiped" clean and donated to nonprofits (like this one).

Thereafter, it's the nonprofit's problem to make them usable, again (hence where I come into this picture). A 12-24 mo old machine *may* be "ancient" to a large corporation. But, to a disadvantaged student, "for free", it's *gold*!

It's not as simple as that. What if there is a utility partition (not a restore partition) on the disk that you want/need to retain (e.g., diagnostics)? Or, if the disk you are restoring to is not the same size as the disk from which the image obtained? Do you overwrite the boot block? Partition table? etc.

Nope. Some manufacturers have two version of their BIOS, a UEFI version and a non-UEFI version. Others have some means of disabling Secure Boot and enabling Legacy Boot. For example: etc...

For your Supermicro C7H61: On Pg 4-22, note the Boot Options menu, which offers: Built-in EFI Shell, [any detected boot device] and Disabled. If you select Disabled, it should return back to a normal BIOS boot and disable UEFI.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Is it out of the question to ask users to press "Next..." a few times? You could give them a Linux Mint DVD - everything is free (no software vendors saying their licenses are not transferable and the student needs to buy new copies of Windows, etc.), practically no malware risks (thus eliminating a major support issue), and most of the software they will need is right there on the DVD.

This also means that upgrades can be done in exactly the same way - copy personal data onto a USB stick, insert the new DVD, click "Next..." a few times.

And if all this is too difficult for the students, it should not be difficult to find a Youtube video going through the process.

mvh.,

David

Some of the clone programs can actually copy a windows boot drive or partition faster than sector by sector, apparently by knowing what Windows actually needs. XXCLONE does that. I like it except for the way that you need to keep getting the newest version from their web site because the one you downloaded now will shut down as being too old after only 6 months. They have a free version, but even the paid (subscription) version has this time out/update "feature" after 6 months. I use 180 G SATA drives with a boot partition at the bottom, another at the top and the middle partition (s) are for data. The top partition is a backup boot, and XXclone actually lets you boot from it as C: to make sure it fully operates. Since the backup partition can be lost if the whole drive dies, I also make a backup boot to an older smaller drive which I test out and put away, labeled well. I only use XP Pro SP3 but this scheme would work for Windows 7. I actually have 6 identical OEM computers (pre UEFI) so the backup boot drive is good for every one of them. The original Windows install DVD for them never even asked for the product key on the side of each computer. That's an important distinction from custom build or consumer OEM systems where you MUST enter the ProductKey from the COA sticker on the side of the computer. If you custom build computers or buy consumer oriented OEM machines, Windows is extremely fussy about ONLY running on the computer it was originally installed on. (Maybe reading CPU serial #?) That stuff was relaxed for corporate market OEM computers making life easier for corporate IT techs. I don't know if that is also the case for Win 7 OEM corporate market computers. If you have several cloned systems on a network you need to change their machine ID for networking because they can't all have the same ID on the network. Even if you use a sector by sector copy program (slower than xxclone) the idea of a clone your own recovery partition could help regarding time if you size the operating boot partition and the backup boot partition just right for all updates, all common programs you use, etc. Allocating too much space on those would cause many sector by sector programs to waste a lot of time on empty sectors. If you are very careful, the backup boot can clone itself to the bottom partition, or the stored drive can be hooked up and cloned to the bottom partition without wiping anything on the middle partition(s). Windows objects to being transplanted because MS was worried about piracy and made the software shut down if it is transplanted from machine to machine. I take advantage of the fact that Microsoft once relaxed those detections for identical corporate oriented OEM machines. In order to have only ONE master for many machines you'd have to slipstream a script onto a rebuilt "PrE Install CD" and make each user enter their unique Windows ProductKey. If you were talking about hundreds of computers in a corporate environment Microsoft does have some software for pushing "PE" or "Prebuild" windows builds out to large numbers of systems on a network, while still allowing each machine to have their unique ProductKey I think. Microsoft's worries about piracy cause a lot of problems for everybody building or using their software. There are lots of VERY accurate counterfeit Windows DVD install sets for sale online, and they typically shut down after 30 days, possibly quicker if you try to do online security updates. A few of the counterfeits only look good before the package is opened, but are obviously fake once you open the package, but most of the fakes are almost impossible to tell apart, inside and out. Which Linux distro are you using? LOL

It sounds like you expect them to copy their files from a machine which doesn't work.

James