OT: Computer repair

Jeff Higgins wrote: [snip]

[snap]

In 1965 I was 15yr and build a TV Typewriter and QMultiplier from Popular Electronics articles. In 1988 I was banging out Basic programs on an old discarded SBC computer - one 5 1/2 floppy.

Jeff

.....

Correct answer: "We'll give you a new one, we'll give you a full refund, we'll close the depot AND we'll shoot the manager. Will THAT satisfy you?"

you can get a nice Asus MB for under $70 here to replace the old 586.

In 1988 I was designing PC motherboards.

Even then, they were FRUs (field replacable units) - not considered repairable. *I* could repair them, but it was neither practical nor cost efficient to do so. These days, even more so.

...but I bet you weren't costing someone $50-$100/hr to keep around to do those things?

I do think the shop is gouging you -- no way should it cost $75 to simply tell you "the motherboard is fried" -- but it is true that it isn't cost effective to repair motherboards these days; new ones are between $25-$100 depending on what you get (run-of-the-mill desktop boards; specialized boards can of course go much higher). If I were running that repair shop, I think I'd try the angle of, "How about if I put a new MB in there and charge you $100 total?" (This assumes your motherboard has a recent CPU and memory so that replacement MBs are readily available.)

Be sure to ask them if they've tested the CPU and memory separately so that you can at least re-use it...

"Joel Kolstad" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

586-CPU MBs are not exactly even close to being "current",being several generations ago.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

maxfoo wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

And will the old MB's memory,video cards,etc. fit the new MB? I seriously doubt it. maybe not even the keyboard without an adapter.

Better to buy an "upgrade kit"(case,PS,MB,memory) and swap the HD and possibly video and modem cards to the new PC,maybe even get a newer OP system. Heck,even whole new PCS are only around $500,with on-MB video.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Same here. 1984-1991, 680x0-based motherboards for Apollo engineering workstations.

We put a lot of effort into making them reliable in the first place. Only we in the design engineering team could have diagnosed faults within the board; to everyone else, the board was the FRU.

-- Dave Tweed

I can't help but share my opinion. I agree with another poster that the only thing they should have offered is to swap the MB. I like the manager claiming that nobody (including the manufacturer) has the eqipment. Wow, did that PC come from Mars??

About incompetence... My girlfriend (5'1" tall, I think it's important) brought her 2002

4-cylinder Camry for 90kmiles service to local NTB shop.The estimate was... do not remember, it's not important. They called and said that the car also needs new spark plugs and it would be $250 extra. She calls me, I go ballistic. $250???!!! for four stinking spark plugs?! $6 ea or so AFAIK. Do they have PHD in Mechanical engineering from MIT to do the job? She calls them back. They lower price to $130 something. The spark plugs they would install are the best - uranium. I am not making it up - URANIUM. Grrrrrrrrrr The same guys told my girlfriend that they need some time to find out if the car needs timing belt replaced (they'd call). Mechanics, *&^%$#. If the car has the belt it does need it replaced. It took me (amateur) 5 minutes (and internet to figure this out; the car has timing chain). They (professionals -?) charge $60 or more per man/hour cannot do it. I would not be surprised if they call and say that they can have the timing belt changed at a special price of $599.95. Sorry for spamming - I know it has nothing to do with "sci.electronics.design"

Jeff Higg> Long off topic post.

To be fair, it can take anything up to an hour just to find out that the m/board is duff, by a process of elimination etc. Obsolete or unfamiliar kit, even longer. Fault finding is labour intensive and in a small repair shop, all time must be accounted for just to survive. Some shops have an "estimate" fee, which is an up initial charge to find the fault and price the cost of repair. If the customer has the repair done, the estimate is deducted from the total. Modern computers and consumer electronics are complex enough to take time to narrow down the fault to an fru, never mind component level. Then you have to call to get a spares price and often it's too high for the customer, so the job makes no money at all unless an estimate charge is made.

So long as the customer is made aware of this, I don't see any problem with it at all. Here, all repairs are done by myself, so don't have any axe to grind, but do know just how long it can take to track down some faults...

Chris

I've had the local dealer offer to replace a burned-out turn signal/brake light for $48.

I politely declined the offer.

But it's *true*, pretty much. How would you go about locating a bad solder joint under a few-hundred-pin BGA? Or a failed input on same? How long would it take? The actual motherboard manufacturer (probably not gateway) might be able to do it, but no-one else I suspect.

--

John Devereux

BGA? This is done by MoBo manufacturer on preproduction setup stage. Or farmed out as X-ray microscope is fairly expensive. Nobody would survive repairing $50-$150 MoBos (or other pieces of consumer electronics for that matter) for living (in industrialized countries), considering how complex they are. That's what causes RoHS requirements... Alas :o(

John Devereux wrote:

On 19 Dec 2006 10:09:32 -0800, "Michael" Gave us:

Except for the FACT that metallic form lead is NOT harmful and does NOT glean off harmful lead molecules into our environment. In other words... it's all bullshit!

Probably the CMOS battery... If its dead, a lot of systems won't boot because they can't sense the power on switch being pressed.

--
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

No way they are gouging. They have a sign that says $75 bench fee. When he gives them the thing to fix or just diagnose, he obligates himself to pay that fee. If he doesn't like the fee, he walks without giving them the unit for diagnosis/repair.

75 dollar bench fee? Heck, when TV's were still repairable they charged $60 and that's over 20 years ago. In the late 70's, a high end audio shop charged $75 minimum + 75 per hour after the first hour.

Maybe you have access to computer repair near you that costs less? What price would you consider fair vs gouging?

Nor possible, except in very limited cases.

Ed

If you read the OP's posting, it doesn't appear that he was aware of the "bench fee." Maybe he missed it, although a good shop lets customers know what sort of money they're about to get themselves into *before* accepting a product for diagnosis/repair.

Whether or not $75 is gouging... well, it seems so to me, although I've read a few other reasoned responses suggesting it might not be.

I can tell you a lot more quickly that a PC has a "dead motherboard" and that swapping it with a new one will fix your problem than I can tell you *what's wrong* with a TV or amplifier.

I'd say anything above $50 is starting to be "opportunistic." With overhead and all, that should be able to pay for at least an hour's worth of troubleshooting by a decently paid technician while still making some money for the shop.

I realize the repair business is pretty hard, though, in that there's no "economies of scale" involved (unless you start seeing the same problem over and over again). I know a woman who once had a computer shop/repair business (I believe she charged $25 for a diagnosis -- this was ~5 years ago), and she admitted the repair side didn't make much money (and sometimes lost money); it just brought customers in the door who'd get to know her and eventually buy new products. She got out of the business once PCs hit the

On a sunny day (Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:58:49 GMT) it happened ehsjr wrote in :

I had a TV repair show in the eighties, and _never_ charged more then 25 guilders (say then 10 dollars?) for a quote. It always worked for me, only failed once when one of the sales guys quoted a repair without having me look at it first.... Years(!) later I found out that that one repair had already been quoted by Philips (guy thought it was too expensive). It all depends how good you are. There were and are a _lot_ of ripof people (unqualified too) that charge for 'picture tube replacement' etc) without even touching that tube. I think this is illegal in the US (In California you need to return parts replaced ?) but a shady area in much of Europe. These days TV repair is hardly something you could make money with I think, unless you rip people of. I dunno, but how to repair a HDTV LCD... I'd probably forward it to the importer. I'v done that with Sony video recorders, not worth buying the special tools.

So what is fair? We had a good reputation and people coming back. As a customer you take your chances, I have had my car fixed and they put the wrong screws in the steering..... Almost front wheel fell of, then a other garage fixed it for nothing! I suspect PC repair is much the same these days... try sell a new one!

100$ PC is coming ;-)

I have seen people freaking out having to pay 25 guilders repair for a 40 guilders coffee machine (switch) :-) That was Philips. Yet those techies had to be payed too. Throw away society, wait until we get Chinese cars ...... LOL

In the 1985 era, home computers were quite repairable. Did that to make some money on the side (but not for my employer who ran this as a service on the side).

Good memories, and some poor ones. Why the C64s would sometimes blow all

8 RAM chips at the same time?

Thomas