OT: 8th grader computing (age=14)

Informal survey: Which (if any) of the following would you purchase or recommend for the typ ical 8th grade student (age=14)?

iPad (or iPad mini) Chromebook Netbook Android tablet e-Reader (Kindle, Nook, etc..)

I'm so out of touch with what's "in" these days I would have no idea where to start. You know the saying: When all you have is a hammer, everything l ooks like a nail. (That's a roundabout way of saying I was weaned on Windo ws!) It's tempting to go with what "I" know, but maybe that's not the best path.

The problem with Windows (as if there were only one!), is that 30-60 days f rom now, it probably won't boot or have some other malfunction (er, I mean "upgrade") -- and trust me, his Mom and Dad won't have a clue how to fix it . Then again, maybe self-help trial & error is the way kids learn?

I'm leaning towards getting my nephew a Chromebook, but before I do, would really like to hear some unbiased opinion. My goal of course is to get him something that will spark his interest, help with school, and let's face i t - his generation has little choice but to be computer-literate.

Thanks,

Reply to
mpm
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typical 8th grade student (age=14)?

start. You know the saying: When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. (That's a roundabout way of saying I was weaned on Windows!) It's tempting to go with what "I" know, but maybe that's not the best path.

now, it probably won't boot or have some other malfunction (er, I mean "upgrade") -- and trust me, his Mom and Dad won't have a clue how to fix it. Then again, maybe self-help trial & error is the way kids learn?

really like to hear some unbiased opinion. My goal of course is to get him something that will spark his interest, help with school, and let's face it - his generation has little choice but to be computer-literate.

Buy him a proper laptop computer running Windows 7/dual booting Windows

7 and a Linux distro like Ubuntu. Netbooks are dead ends with frustratingly poor performance that will turn a new user off fast. Chromebooks are locked in to Google too tightly. None of the other options will instill "computer literacy" in any meaningful sense. Nor will they allow for learning a programming language.

My peers and I were programming for the Apple IIe when we were in 3rd grade, and running programs from DOS prompts on 286es when we were in middle school. Kids learn fast. With Windows 7 it's easy to create an image file on a backup disk that can be used to restore the system into a known-good state should anything go terribly wrong.

An E-readers or Android tablet would make a good addition if funds allow, but it's not a substitute for a proper PC. Don't go for the very-low end Android tablets, though, as they have disappointing performance. I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 which was only about $150 refurbished, and it's blazing fast.

Reply to
bitrex

Another vote for this.

An iPad or its clone is not a computer. It is great for reading the current several-thousand page data sheets, but it is lousy for computing tasks.

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Tauno Voipio
Reply to
Tauno Voipio

And another vote. I was a tad disappointed with my iPad - good for some websurfing or casual email. Definitely for consumption rather than creation.

Reply to
Rodwell

start.

Go to his skool and see what other kids are carrying and using. That should offer a clue as to what's fashionable these days. I would go with a small (14-15" screen) PC laptop running anything between XP and Windoze 8. Figure on Apple being about twice the price of an equivalent PC. I'm partial to used, because computers are a lousy investment.

If you can't fly, then carry a big parachute. For Windoze, it's called an "image backup". It copies literally everything on the hard disk (or SSD) to a removable USB 3.0 Terabloat hard disk drive. If it dies, wipe, restore from the backup, and he's good to go until he gets the next virus. Repeat often enough and he'll probably get the clue that backing up is a good idea. The Microsoft way: However, I prefer Acronis True Image 2013 ($50):

At age 14, I would estimate the life of the laptop to be about 2 years maximum. If this is his first computer, even less. It's not computer or software obsolescence or viruses that will kill the computer. It's your son. Kids are brutal on hardware. One of my businesses is to fix computers. You wouldn't believe the wreckage that I see dragged into the office. That's another reason why I recommend used.

A used PC also offers another learning opportunity. Your son might try to fix it himself. The odds are that he'll screw it up, but it's still a worthwhile exercise. I call it Learn By Destroying. With luck, he might learn something about electronics, troubleshooting, diagnostics, test equipment, searching the internet for clues, asking for help, and knowing when to give up. A (used) PC is far more suitable for such exercises because of the availability of cannibalized parts on eBay. There are far fewer parts and opportunities for do-it-thyself repair with Apple products.

A Chromebook is nothing more than a big cell phone with a decent keyboard. In my never humble opinion, it's main customer base should be Android based cell phone users that are tired of dealing with the awkward on screen keyboards. Learning to hunt and peck with an on screen keyboard is a sure way of never learning to type properly. If he insists on having it all, buy a 5" or 7" cheapo Android tablet instead of a digital camera. Such tablets are cheap, and take quite good photos. Google Nexus 7 seems about right. He'll probably figure out what it's good for (games, chat, games, skype, games, camera, etc). The PC can then be for skool work.

Incidentally, graduation just came and went. I delivered four used laptops to various parents as gifts to their graduating kids. I was worried that they would be disappointed getting a used machine. Nope. Everything worked out just fine. However, I expect to see all the laptops for some form of repair within about 6 months. Batteries, broken hinges, drop damage, and food spills are the most common.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Learn to replace LCD screens yourself! I've replaced four so far, and only one was electrical failure. One was my own fault (new-to-me low car and winter jacket pocket got slammed in the door!).

--sp

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

What's a "winter" jacket ?:-} ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

I think your line breaks are messed up. It's the bane of "modern" Os'es or email software.

Clear vote, same as many others in this thread: Netbook.

All other things limit your nephew to "apps", meaning a rather consumption-oriented or passive participation in the digital world. Too sedentary for me. I'd want a kid to be more active, have all the options, and only a netbook or laptop will really deliver in that domain.

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Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

Hey, nice convertible weather today. You know, when you can drive around with the top down without splitting open like a weenie in a grill?

;-)

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

Or, in Canada, having ice stalactites growing out of the beard :-)

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Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

It's only 94°F right now (10:22AM) and will be only 107°F this afternoon... no weenie splitting with that ;-) ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
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Jim Thompson

The usual mistake is leaving a pencil on the keyboard, and slamming the lid closed. 2nd best is putting something heavy (like your posterior) on top of the laptop. Good protection against this is not a laptop bag, but rather two pieces of 1/4" plywood, some foam, and the laptop sandwiched in between.

I replace quite a few LCD screens. For MacBooks, the difficult part is finding suitable screen. The one's that are available are fairly expensive.

For PC's the problem is in the handling. There are plenty of videos and web pages on how to replace the LCD panel, but few on how to handle the ribbon cables without destroying the ribbon cable to PCB connections. I trashed a few before I discovered that "hands off" really does mean what it says.

For the truly adventuresome, there's replacing the CCFL lamp on older displays. For some unknown reason, all the popular panel manufacturers require that the panel be almost completely disassembled, in order to replace the CCFL lamp. Somehow, the replacement lamp is always 1mm too long too fat, which causes the lamp to crack when all the layers of hardware are reinstalled. These days, I use white LED retrofit replacements. The bad news is that dimming doesn't work in most such retrofits.

Incidentally, if you're into preventive maintenance, you might consider taking the top panel off the laptop hinge area, and removing the LCD frame, in order to tighten the screws holding the hinges. If you let it go too long, and it starts to wobble, it will eventually crack the flimsy plastic mounting for the brass retainer sockets, making the hinge rather floppy. If you live in a dust bowl, dust and oil mix to form a glue, which adds to the hinge friction. If you brute force such a hinge, it will break the flimsy and porous magnesium hinge plate castings. Longevity "hinges" on how well you take care of the hinges.

You might also want to join my fan club. Clean the dust out of the fan area or the laptop will surely overheat or shut itself off. A brush will help, but an air compressor works best. This would also be a good time to remove the cookie crumbs from under the keyboard with the compressed air.

After broken keyboards, broken power connectors, broken USB connectors, cracked LCD panels, noisy fans, and broken hinges, there the all too common BGA soldering failure. The larger BGA chips, mounting on a rather large PCB, in a flimsy and flexible laptop frame, will crack the solder connections if the PCB is flexed. Reflow hot air soldering and reballing are possible, but are time consuming. I have a hot air SMT rework station, but my success rate on such reflows is about 20%. You can send it out to have the reballing done professionally, but by the time you add the cost (about $175), the shipping both ways (about $40), and having pay someone to reassemble the laptop because you didn't bother making photos while you took it apart (about $100), you might as well buy a new laptop.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I beg to differ. NyetBooks are notoriously slothish. Speed is everything and NyetBooks are just not fast enough for 14 year old power users, who have no patience and want everything to happen instantly. I've maxed out the RAM on some NyetBooks, which does help, but isn't really sufficient for games and watching videos. The lower end PC's are fairly close in price, so cost isn't really an advantage.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Sure, a desktop PC will always beat a netbook. But it wasn't on the list, probably because a kid cannot schlepp that to friends or to school. Fact is, netbooks can do remarkable things. I just ran a 1-1/2h clinical trial with one (plus some hardware I built in front of it) and the guys were mighty impressed by that tiny machine. Samsung NC-10, Atom running at 800MHz or so, no added RAM or any other souping up was done.

If a kid is after action, videos and gaming then other devices will be better. But that's essentially all "sedentary" activity, not good for the kid.

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Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

I have a core-2 duo "netbook" (meaning, no optical drive), and it's fine for most non-CAD work on the road, even though it's years old.

The original netbooks with their Atom processors and 1G memory are about as useful as t*ts on a bull.

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

You should have witnessed the clinical trial I just did with one. It included math-heavy stuff that had to run the whole time. Other times I used it to do spectrum psot-processing to find weird noises. Stuff that equipment that had cost >20x could not find. All that with an Atom and 1G.

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Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

A netbook isn't a bad introduction and nothing much is lost if it ends up as a doorstop. A ram upgrade helps and doing a bit of homework on CPU benchmark and review sites will help avoid lemons.

We don't actually know that he is a power user. And a netbook will just about play video on its rather smallish screen. They go a bit limp trying to run Skype with video or decode and process digital TV though.

A secondhand or new 15" laptop is probably the best bet. The perfect price point is one which won't run the latest and greatest games.

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Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

Double the memory and they are just about usable for word and spreadsheets, but lack oomph for things like Skype and digital TV. They will usually play video OK and benefit enormously from a ram upgrade. (obviously you need an extrenal USB DVD drive for this as well)

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Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

My now somewhat "matured" Samsung NC-10 can do Skype and GoToMeeting just fine. Complex FFT at realtime audio rates? No sweat, it can even keep watching the email in the background.

It depends. If it was in my hands the keyboard and touchpad will be rather worn. Also, you'll almost inevtiably have to invest in a new battery which can easily set you back $150-$250. A new one can look rather tempting in view of this. Even in the budget range of slightly above $500 you can get remarkable performance these days.

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Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

I think we may have a few differences in our definitions. Simply removing a CDROM drive and adopting a small form factor, does not magically convert a laptop into a netbook. There is also the "Ultrabook" which are various mutations of the original MacBook Air, where the main feature is an SSD (solid state disk) drive. In between, we have the "sub-notebook" which is simply a regular laptop, shrunk to the size of a netbook by the reducing the screen size to

10.2" as in your Samsung NC10. Note that I haven't even mentioned tablets with external keyboards, that are in many ways a laptop.

At this time, I don't have any easy way of classifying any particular laptop as being a netbook, sub-notebook, ultrabook, laptop, or portable desktop because there is no single characteristic that distinguished any of these from the others, and because there is plenty of overlap between definitions.

Incidentally, your Samsung NC10 is a "SubNotebook / Netbook" according to the Wikipedia article: I classify anything with a keyboard small enough that I have to revert to two finger typing as a netbook, and those where I can type normally as sub-notebooks.

Have you looked at eBay style pricing? I haven't paid that much for a battery in maybe 15 years. Maybe on something exotic or long obsolete might justify a high battery cost, but not something recent and still in production. Using your Samsung NC10 as an example:

Keyboard $23.00:

Battery $18.00:

Charger $10.00:

Replacement LCD screen $40.00:

I will frequently buy laptops on eBay with bashed in displays, missing batteries, or with keys missing, replace the parts, and end up with a good laptop. The real cost is in the time it takes for me to reinstall the operating system, install apps, update, customize, personalize, and image backup the laptop.

Incidentally, I usually recommend that desktop replacement laptops, which tend to sit on the desk with the charger plugged in all the time, use a half-dead "sacrificial" LiIon battery. When power on the go is needed, replace it with the "good" LiIon battery. Leaving LiIon batteries fully charged and running hot (inside the laptop) will drastically reduce its useful life.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Jeff Liebermann

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