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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?

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I had been wondering about QEMU, though I'm amazed that any of these
things are even slightly usable on fast PCs, never mind an Rpi.

--  
Windmill, snipped-for-privacy@Nonetel.com               Use  t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:-                                   @ O n e t e l . c o m
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On 21/06/13 07:38, Windmill wrote:
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I tried QEMU on a mac G3. took 20 minutes to actually get to a dos  
prompt :-)

Id guess that you could do better on an ARM using some sort of tight  
assembler code to interpret X86 machine code in a very small core.

I mean an X86 is sort of a RISC machine with microde anyway? The real  
advantage is probably in having access to high speed local cache and  
pipelining..

(Hmm.. ARM looks pretty good as a processor. Just been reading the wiki.  
NIce instruction set. I can see why compiler writers would find way to  
make code smaller on ARM.)

Anyway I see no reason why you couldn't get CP/M at least running in a  
Z80 emulator,  on a Pi :-)

Then you could run wordstar!





--  
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.


Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
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The phrase to look for is ?dynamic binary translation?: you translate
blocks of code from the target?s instruction set to the host?s and then
execute the result (and cache it).  Essentially it?s a JIT compiler for
the target architecture.

As it happens QEMU does indeed work this way.

--  
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On 21/06/13 12:51, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
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just very very badly..:-)


--  
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.


Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?

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There is a TECO port for Linux.

--  
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 28th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3179
RIP James Joseph Gandolfini, Jr. (September 18, 1961 ? June 19, 2013)

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On 23/06/13 10:03, Huge wrote:
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Obviously oak aged VINTAGE port..

--  
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.


Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?


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Now there is, but there was a short time before Linux when I had to run
DRDOS (couldn't afford anything else). Then someone produced TECOC for
DOS, and I used that to add a little intelligence to the DOS command
interpreter, then I started to use Linux but without TECO. After a few
years of automatically and unthinkingly hitting Alt at the end of any
editing command (which of course didn't have any useful effect since it
wasn't TECO) I began to forget the latter.
Today about all I remember is ebfilename.ext$ and a$$ and ht$$

But I still have a little TECO card summarising the TECO commands and
the variants for different DEC Oses. Maybe it's a valuable antique :-)

--  
Windmill, snipped-for-privacy@Nonetel.com               Use  t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:-                                   @ O n e t e l . c o m
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:11:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher  

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ITYM Zork. HTH.  PIP PIP!



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It's a money /life balance.

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
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Want to run zork? use "frotz"

Unless you really need wordstar give "joe" a try its, wordstar mode is
fairly close to the real thing.

There's "fuse-emulator" and "gngb" but apparently no emulators for
"serious" Z80 based computers.

I seem to recall running forth under a CP/M emulator 3 or 4 debian
releases ago, the current absense of a CP/M emulator is mysterious,
it was AIUI an open platform, display was a VT52 which "xterm" can
emulate

OTOH you can probably run CP/M-86 in "bochs".

--  
?? 100% natural

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
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Well there is SIMH which can emulate an Altair 8080 and some more
interesting machines.

I think you can use z80pack to create a generic CPM machine (something  
with a Z80 but not based on real hardware).

--  
Andy Leighton => snipped-for-privacy@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"  
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?

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sure, sorry, it was a joke/ memory of old times, PIP = Peripheral Input  
Program


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there might be a native forth port -
or not from my GG searching

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--  
It's a money /life balance.

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On 04/07/13 19:28, Stanley Daniel de Liver wrote:
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GForth Yforth and Pforth exist in my stock linux distro.
You can write a forth interpreter in C  - no NEED to do it in assembler.

Though it runs faster if the core is in assembler.

as running two stacks is not something most architectures supply as  
standard.

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--  
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.


Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On Thu, 04 Jul 2013 19:54:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher  

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[]

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Sure there's forth available under linux - I meant a standalone or  
'native' forth.
But it would nice to have some interface words to the GPU!


--  
It's a money /life balance.

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
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Peripheral Interchange Program, actually.
--  
roger ivie
snipped-for-privacy@ridgenet.net

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?

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It's been a long time. (join in the chorus)

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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 10:46:53 +0100, "Stanley Daniel de Liver"

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It has indeed! I reckon it was just about 40 years ago when I was
experimenting with CP/M v2.2 after acquiring a couple of part built
Transam Tuscan S100 bus computer kits as spares for my own Transam
Tuscan at, afaicr, the Norbreck amateur radio rally. I can't remember
atually using PIP. The closest I got to that was using the MSDOS copy
command, which includes the functionality of a utility like PIP, when
loading rom image files into an eprom programmer.

 The CPM was part of the package of bits  on a set of 8 inch floppies
with two mains powered 8 inch floppy drive units in a seperate unit
fabricated, like the rest of that part built system out of heavy guage
sheet aluminium and square section alloy 'tubing' used as 'angle iron'
to screw join everything together (even the keyboard had its own such
box!).

 That half of the two systems comprised a seperate PSU box leaving the
mainboard mounted on its own in a large box: a total of four boxes in
all. The other system had been built into the proper Transam Tuscan
supplied case which could accept a pair of 5 1/4 inch floppy disk
drives (I can't recall whether it had a drive fitted, or even a
controller expansion card).

 I put the 'seperates' together and booted the CP/M to have a play
with my very first real OS. Afterwards, I copied it onto 5 1/4 inch
floppies and then onto 720K 3 1/2 inch disks which, I think, must
still be lurking about (probably in the basement rather than amongst
my PC floppy disk collection of some 700+ disks).

 I didn't get much time to play with CP/M itself since I'd started
building PCs from kit made up of secondhand parts bought at various
ham rallies and computer fairs which resulted in my getting acquainted
with Microsoft's rip off version of CP/M86, aka MSDOS 3.3.

 Another reason for neglecting CP/M on the S100 Bus machine was that I
had done all the hard work in getting a couple of Philips solenoid
operated data cassette drives[1] to function as a floppy disk
substitute and the development of the associated TOS[2] which I wanted
to see to completion.

[1] These data cassette deck drives were bought from my local
government surplus store at a fraction of the then 150 quid asking
price of a 5 1/4 inch floppy (and the similarly priced S100 bus
controller card).

 The formatted capacity of a C60 sized data cassette (normal cassettes
could also be used) was 332KB each side. The drives were half track
and had bi-directional capstain drive, but only single half track read
and write heads - the bi-directional capstain drive only facilitated
an optimsed block seeking algorithm, you still had to manually flip
the tape over to use the other 332K's worth of storage. The drive had
an extra sensor to detect which side of a data cassette tape was being
accessed though.

 When I finished testing the elctrical requirements of the motors and
solenoids and built the support electronics and the TOS[2], the system
could do an end to end block search in 14 seconds and load the 8K TCL
basic in 5 seconds flat which was a vast improvement over other floppy
disk alternatives such as the Sinclaire wafer drive and some of the
other toy computers' inept use of actual floppy disks.

[2] TOS; Tape Operating System. In this case, the crudest and simplest
one I could devise for my purposes. It was (rather) loosely based on
CP/M (10+3 character filename format rather than CP/M's (and MSDOS's)
8+3 format but the FS turned out to be based on MS's FAT system
(effectively FAT8).

 Whether this was due to my friends' suggestions on implementing a
tape FS was due to influence by their knowledge of MSDOS's FAT system
or just a matter of logical common sense (CP/M's FS was needlessly
complex and endowed with an excessive amount of redundency - hence my
seeking the advice on an alternative), I couldn't really say. The
point was, when it came to understanding the basics of MSDOS's FAT
system, I had a bit of a head start.
--  
Regards, J B Good

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
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It seems like it was just yesterday when last I ran PIP under RT-11
on a PDP-11.  Oh wait, it was.....

bill


--  
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
snipped-for-privacy@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 15:08:15 +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

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     I see you're posting from Earth....

Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 14:27:34 +0100, "Stanley Daniel de Liver"

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Wasn't there a DOS version of Zork?
--  
(\__/)  M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
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Re: Why does the Raspberry Pi exist?
Mark wrote:
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There are interpreters available for Linux, DOS and Windows that let you  
run most of the Infocom format games. ISTR that DOS was the original  
release platfrom for the Zork games.

--  
Tciao for Now!

John.

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