Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit

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Just wanted to pass this along for the hobbyists.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-19.10.1-For-Raspberry-Pi

Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
TCW wrote:
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It is reasonable to consider an RPi4 to be quite capable of being a  
desktop even w/ an OS which is relatively 'inefficient' (bloated?)  
compared to the choices for earlier RPi/s such as 3B.

I think Ubuntu should be congratulated for accepting a role in  
supporting ARM such as RPi4.

However, there is a much bigger picture that involves support for ARM  
devices of much less resources - that would not apply to Ub.

Lighter weight distro/s such as Raspian and others should continue to  
get the most attention from ARM devices.

--  
Mike Easter

Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On 11/12/2019 03:36, Mike Easter wrote:
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It's not the distro that is lightweight: it is simply the lack of CPU  
sucking javascript in a web browser.

Or X-windows.

Ditch a GUI and you can run on a z80.


--  
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early  
twenty-first century?s developed world went into hysterical panic over a  
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Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
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Well, I would say that some distro/s and DEs and browsers focus more on  
being modest in their resource consumption than others.

Ubuntu is 'based on' Debian, but it has its own repo/s; and Ub  
'generally' uses more resources than Debian.

Historically, KDE has been considered a heavier DE, but recent versions  
have shown KDE to be /much/ more modest in resource use than Gnome,  
which doesn't seem to care a fig about how efficient it isn't.  A  
typical Gnome distro might use nearly twice as much resources live to  
the desktop than a typical KDE.

When someone assembles a distro such as Raspbian, they make choices in  
which base, Debian, which DE/WM LXDE/OpenBox and which mail/news agent  
Claws; whereas other distro dev/s make much heavier choices.  The choice  
of Chromium for the default Raspbian browser was a choice leaning toward  
functionality rather than low resources.

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Well, personally I'm more of a GUI person.  My computing days started w/  
an Atari TOS GUI, so I didn't 'grow up' using a command line.  Nowadays  
I DO use command lines when they do the job I want done more efficiently.

The Raspbian choices for my RPi3B do just fine, resource-wise.  If I  
were a 4G RPi4, the resource management would be different; but I would  
likely use an XFCE Debian.  I'm not sure about the Claws vs Thunderbird  
issue; tho' Tb is VERY bloated, it has some features for news I like  
that Claws doesn't.


--  
Mike Easter

Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:53:06 -0800

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I start off with rasbian-lite then build up exactly what I want for the
particular application - usually involves openbox and rox-filer

--  
W J G

Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On a sunny day (Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:53:06 -0800) it happened Mike Easter

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On EVERY computa I have, I run Linux and immediately replaced whatever desktop
it has by fvwm and xfm from the late last century.
This gives me 9 virtual desktops,
one has the web browser, one xfm (file manager with those icons ye know)
and the other ones all have a rxvt terminal full screen; foreground white, text black
the reason for fg white is that with ever varying text the average brightness does not change
so much and is much more pleasant to the eyes.
The middle xterm is black background and runs alsamixer.
But then I do a lot of programming, much of the stuff running here I wrote myself.
KDE is out, is bloatware, and that gnome thing I stay clear off.
Most of the GUI programs I write use libforms, the rest writes directly to X.
So same user interface since 1998 or so for all computas I have.
As to libforms, the latest version on debian has been screwed up by the maintainer
so I compile a very old (original) version from source.

Where I see debian go, and many good programs with it, is getting worse and worse.
I once had an old Ubuntu on this laptop I use now, maybe I should try the latest
because Ubuntu has much better support for some special hardware, am radio ham too,
would be nice if some stuff worked out of the box and not have to spend days porting things..

Speed? I do not have a problem with speed for the GUI code I write using libforms.
It seems, and this is really funny, as we are getting to ever higher screen resolutions,
speed suffers. There is normally NO NEED for those insane screen resolutions (4 k comes to mind)
I am also using a very old PC, using it every day, that runs Xfree86 (from before that new crap)
has the X mode-lines, for some old programs I use written for 640x480 or whatever it was,
I just use the ctlr alt backspace switch to switch screen resolution on the fly
so those apps that now become invisible on those screens with insane high resolution all of the sudden
go fullscreen and can be read even by normal people of my age,
:-) :-)
Where it goes,?? Many times I have though about leaving Linux as it has alienated itself from Unix so much.
Unix was written for efficiency when resources were expensive,,,
thought free BSD but no experience with that, write my own multitasker (did that for Z80 once),
or as China is now introducing their own OS as reply to precedent duck's tariffs, maybe the Chinese OS
Those guys are clever, but my Chinese sucks,
So.. anyways we need a change but that conspiracy between MS and hardware sellers is the capitalist system self destructive?
OK 'nuf said'.
              
  


Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 05:39:38 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

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Same here, but my bigger systems (old dual-Athlon house server and a  
couple of Lenovo laptops) all run Fedora with the XFCE desktop.

I've been running Fedora ever since it replaced Redhat Linux 7.x with no  
real issues. I switched to XFCE when Poettering's crew released Gnome2, a  
buggy, unfinished mess.

XFCE is worth a look: reasonably lightweight, no fancy fripperies and by  
an large it just gets on with the job.

Being naturally lazy, my RPi (an early 512KB B) has always run Raspbian  
in headless mode, though I periodically wonder if its worth switching it  
to Fedora - IMO dnf beats the pants off apt and that, apart from closer  
compatibility is a good enough reason for making the switch.

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XFCE has 4 virtual desktops by default - a very useful feature,  
especially because moving applications between desktops is just a drag 'n  
drop operation on the main (top) menu bar.
  

--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org


Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On 12/12/2019 05:39, Jan Panteltje wrote:
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Well as you seem to have failed to stop the world in 1990 so you could  
get off, perhaps you should consider RISC OS.

Back in the 90s it was incredibly advanced for its time, but has  
spectacularly failed to adopt the ways of modern bloat, so it will still  
run with 90s levels of resources. You wont exhaust the the 512MB of a  
Pi, and as it's resolutely single core, an old original Pi B or Zero is  
sufficient, but it will also run even faster 2B and 3B.

---druck

Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On a sunny day (Thu, 12 Dec 2019 20:43:30 +0000) it happened druck

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Yes, well, I worked with Unix long before Linux appeared..
and one of my jobs involved designing ISA cards for the IBM PC.,
when the IBM clones came and everybody was getting one, times changed, I remember us having
discussions about changing to Unix (from the MS DOS that then ruled) already back then.
At home I was using my Z80 system, and also had networking (Viditel) I think
the French name was Minitel, 1200 / 75 Bd IIRC modem... and downloaded Z80 programs
'online' from the CP/M user club with that long before internet existed.
It was not until the DX2 486 appeared that I bought a PC for at home... and connected
to the internet with trumpet winsock and Win 3.1 runing on DRDOS...
In 1998 I found a CD with SLS Linux and tried it, my old Unix book helped a lot,
and never went back to MS stuff (well laptop came with some version of win,
replaced it by Ubuntu that worked out of the box..)
Bought win XP once on recommendation of somebody, waste of money, silly stickers on your PC... removed it  
after a few days... iirc I tried risc OS on an old raspi, could not make sense of it,
Releasing a 'Panteltje Linux' has occurred to me, but is a lifetime job,  
I run Slackware on this laptop and since that is a one man show mostly it is internally consistent
and has worked for me on many putahs.
 I do see software THE OPERATING SYSTEM as an interface between user programs and hardware,
NOT as the integrated untransparent buggy blob that MS sells ..

For that reason I do not normally upgrade or change OS / Linux, only when I buy new hardware,
or in rare cases a new kernel module needs compiling.

So with Buster on my Pi 4 forget about me doing upgrades, and what needs to be added as applications
will have to be from source mostly,
So I see the OS as part of the hardware basically.

It is in the details as always; old PC next to me has a DVB-S PCI card, 2 sound cards, now 15 years old
runs old Linux version, also with xfm 9 virtual desktops and zsh as shell.

The plus with the Pis is that you can put in a SDcard with a new OS and user application just like that,
and have a totally different system.
Playing on PCs with hardware partitions is more complicated (10 partitions with 4 different versions of Linux
is normal for me) this laptop:
panteltje20: ~ # df
Filesystem     1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root       91788296  82022404   9765892  90% /
tmpfs            3009536         0   3009536   0% /dev/shm
/dev/sda9      104854396 104854396         0 100% /mnt/sda9
/dev/sda8      104854396 104206332    648064 100% /mnt/sda8
/dev/sda7      104854396 104524740    329656 100% /mnt/sda7
/dev/sda5      104854396 103362812   1491584  99% /mnt/sda5
/dev/sda1         102396     25132     77264  25% /mnt/sda1
/dev/sda3      104854396 102498716   2355680  98% /mnt/sda3
panteltje20: ~ # mount
/dev/root on / type reiserfs (rw,relatime)
proc on /proc type proc (rw)
sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw)
tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)
/dev/sda9 on /mnt/sda9 type reiserfs (rw)
/dev/sda8 on /mnt/sda8 type reiserfs (rw)
/dev/sda7 on /mnt/sda7 type reiserfs (rw)
/dev/sda5 on /mnt/sda5 type reiserfs (rw)
/dev/sda1 on /mnt/sda1 type ntfs (ro)
/dev/sda3 on /mnt/sda3 type reiserfs (rw)

panteltje20: ~ # uname -a
Linux panteltje20 2.6.37.6 #3 SMP Sat Apr 9 22:49:32 CDT 2011 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2430M CPU @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

time ..  
On partition has a recent Debian, I can boot in that, old Ubuntu, Slackware (using now) etc etc..

But as to where it goes....
the world has mainly gone nuts, now there is a mass hysteria about saving the climate,
little kids got brainwashed years ago by the evil Al Gore, now get into a position of power, tear down the nuclear power plants all over Germany
but in reality climate will change in a very predictable way:
 http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
set by the changes in orbit of the earth around the sun, in the past civilizations have come and gone because of those effects.
NOTHING to Do in any way by the little effect we have making CO2 or whatever gases.

No it is now about selling new stuff
The rulers that are just want to tax .... profit, same for computahs and, just like in the dark ages religion (the Church)
falsified real science and kept the people ignorant and manipulated the masses they still do that today,
when the Viking mars experiment was positive for life it was denied hours later by the powers that rule you
and no experiment ever looked for life on mars again.

You are being played, you must buy more, pay more taxes, and believe this earth is the only place where life exists
(no tax breaks elsewhere???)
Hey I would volunteer for a trip to mars with Elon's spaceship.
:-0 ;-)

Anyways now the US dirty ducks wants to sanction the EU for using Russian gas, (pipeline from Russia to Germany and the rest of Europe)
I begin to see precedent duck and his allies the demoncrates as enemy, threat,
Already now EU has declared MS software as a security threat so hopefully all of EU will soon move to a 'simple' version of Linux..
As far as the UK goes I did read this morning they will leave EU on Jan 31, so go play with that duck club and lose.

Rebellion time.

I should have written don't get me started but I did get started revolt!!!!!!

It is important we keep the knowhow of all energy generating methods alive and standby, as we will need that power to survive as species
both in the coming hotter climate AND the colder period after that.
World geography will change completely, mass migration will happen for survival, and possibly a large amount of human kind will go extinct
We need nuclear powered spaceships to colonize other planets,
Our little smartphones and raspberries with large scale integration will fail after a few hours in space due to radiation effects...
There is work to be done, do it while we still can.
Most knowledge of the Roman empire went when it collapsed and dark ages came..  
with a duck running that N American collective and it now falling apart from inside out, maybe some (if we as species are very lucky)
archaeologist will dig up one of our smartphones thousands of years later and say: wonder how they made those in those day,,,,








Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:30:01 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

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Dangerous bollocks.

You obviously take little notice of the weather. I flew free flight model  
aircraft for 30 years and have been a glider pilot for the last 20. In  
both games you need to be aware of what the weather is doing, and in the  
last 20 years it has changed dramatically: for starters the excellent  
soaring weather we used to get in late April/early May has vanished,  
probably as the jet stream has weakened and moved a long way south.  

Even Randall Munroe, an ex-NASA engineer and sometime computer nerd gets  
the picture. See: https://xkcd.com/1732/


--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org


Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:26:37 -0000 (UTC)

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They would not listen;
They're not listing still.
perhaps they never will :(

I've pointed various people to this site. Sadly, most of them simply don't
*want* to understand.

--  
W J G

Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On 13/12/2019 14:50, Folderol wrote:
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Te problem is that climate change, like nuclear power, has been teh  
object of massive propaganda.
In both cases if you spend a few years digging down and understanding  
the issues, you can tell that vast sums are being laid out to lie about  
both.

Neither is a problem. Both have been demonised. For profit.

If you look at that xxcd graph te data in te last 30 years is basically  
an invention, not actual temeperatures.

And  when  rate of change of temperature has been that rapid in the past  
it simply doesn't show on the proxy records.



--  
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that  
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that  
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Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On a sunny day (Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:26:37 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin

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Try to read and understand the link I gave before you  babble about your hobbies.

You should be able to add some sine waves and extrapolate yourself for the future from the past,
see superposition of orbital effects on the bottom of that page.
then you can see how fast climate can and DID change in the past,
then take your bollocks and swollow those, sadly brainwashed poster.


Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On 13/12/2019 14:50, Jan Panteltje wrote:
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You cannot see rapid changes in the geoligical proxy record. Not because  
there were none, but because they dont show up.

We cant see rapid changes today - except in thermometers that have had  
cities and airports built round them.

Scary climate change depends on postive feedback that has been shown  
does not exist and cannot exist, or the past climate would not have been  
what it was.

If current temperatures are rising it is with 99% confidence not due to CO2.

There is almost no correlation berween temperature rise and CO2 increase.

In fact as a spoof I drew some graphs yeas ago to show that the rise in  
temperature correlated better with the increase in air transport since WWII.

Contrails...



--  
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that  
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that  
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Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:00:10 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

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There actually are some well documented effects - just not the ones you  
might expect or necessarily know about.

In the three days after 11/09/2011, when all civil air transport was  
grounded in the USA the mean temperature across the continental USA  
*rose* by about 2C The effect was attributed to the lack of jet  
contrails, which normally lower the average temp by preventing sunlight  
from reaching the ground during the day and prevent it radiating into  
space at night. Here's a summary:

https://globalnews.ca/news/2934513/empty-skies-after-911-set-the-stage-
for-an-unlikely-climate-change-experiment/


--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org


Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 19:07:58 -0000 (UTC)

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    I find it very hard to believe that there's enough contrail
coverage to have that effect.

--  
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
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Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 22:25:07 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

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So did I at the time, but it was much discussed amongst US glider pilots  
when those numbers were published and the consensus among them was that  
it was about right. IIRC some of then went soaring during the shutdown  
and thought conditions were pretty good. The shutdown didn't affect GA  
and sailplanes, much as the UK shutdown due to the Islandic volcano  
didn't affect GA and gliding here.  

FWIW One of my gliding club's members, an airline pilot at the time, flew  
a cross-country triangle, during the shutdown, with Stanstead and Luton  
as turnpoints just because she could. She knew that would probably be her  
only chance to do it and to talk to their towers while doing it. I bet  
she knew the controllers too, which would have made it irresistible.


--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org


Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On 13/12/2019 22:25, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
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Oh, there is.

Why didnt you say 'I can hardly believe there is enough CO2 to have that  
effect'?

I mean 380ppm to 400 ppm and its the end of the world?

Not.


--  
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They  
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

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Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 07:50:07 +0000

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    Hmmm.

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    That seems to be a rather more complex question than "how much
difference does a reflective contrail make" which boils down to "how much
energy does it reflect into space". People have talked about deploying
reflectors of some kind to control climate and they've always seemed to
need to be unreasonably large, it's surprising to me if the combined
contrails makes a large enough reflector to have such an effect. Many true
things are surprising though, so it may well be the case.

    The thought that occurs to me is that if normal US domestic air
traffic really does reduce the temperature over the US by two degrees (by
reflecting sunlight of contrails or any other mechanism) then we have the
solution to global warming without even considering the causes. All we have
to do is arrange sufficient contrails to dial in the temperature we want
with fast (three days made it show clearly) response.

    Of course reasoning from a single data point and an untested theory
is a good way to go very wrong, but I would find it hilarious if it were
proven and the next move was to encourage widespread air travel in order to
improve the climate.

--  
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
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Re: Ubuntu 19.10.1 for Pi3 & Pi4, 32 & 64 bit
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
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Depends on how you view it. If contrails weren't a by-product but the
purpose for all those planes the cost would be ridiculous.

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r to

I expect that just making existing trails denser and more visible for
the existing flights would not be hard problem to solve.

--  




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