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With the above I was assuming the only reason for the camera was to see if the light was on but I've just thought that the light may be so that the camera can see the bells ringing!!

Just ignore me :-)

I wouldn't be happy hanging 60 feet of any sort of flex as a permanent installation. I'm thinking of slow stretching thinning the copper at a weak spot until it burns out. You need to add strain relief at each floor at least. The braid-armoured might be OK.

You did not look hard enough these systems start at 84 pounds plus VAt and would be free delivery over 21 systems shown in stock

Sorry if link wraps Basically

Search box CCTV systems Domestic and professional.

Last one I got had 20m cables supplied with the cameras and various extension cables can be got from same supplier.

The systems coem WITH CAMERAS

Double insulation is not the reason why you can or cannot do it all normal electrical wiring is double insulated, it is part of electrical safety regulations and avoids electromagnetic interference on the date or phone lines or....

Mains cable has a large magnetic field

There are regulations on clipping distances and it is a LOT more frequent than every floor. Depending on cable size from my old

Only if it has a large current flowing through it and is single core. If it is T&E or flex then the current up equals the current down so the magnetic fields should cancel each other out.

On the other point, I said about zipping the cables together but I said nothing about attachement. It should be quite viable to support the cable at least every metre or so I would have thought - or zip it to the existing conduit which I would guess will be there.

In respect of the cameras on sale at CPC there are the tiny words "available until stocks are exhausted." Surprisingly enough Expensive World does some Samsung kit at good prices,

You can do LED lighting with _no_ strobing--in case that might solve enough of the potential (sorry for the pun) interference and strobing issues. One example is LED light tape made by Armacost that takes 12VDC:

The LEDs don't like high temperatures, so you'll want to have a way to dissipate the heat. My indirect desk lights are four strips of LED tape on 1" angle aluminum as a heat sink. They get warmer than I would prefer.

I power my light tape with power bricks from a video game, purchased at a thrift store. The power bricks I use emit some RF noise. However, you could use cleaner power supplies for arbitrarily low ripple and RFI/EMI.

HTH

I suspect that the bell chamber of any 500 year old church in the UK will never have a problem with heat? However comparing the cost of, say, four or five strips of LEDs against (say) 2x150QH floods it really is a no-brainer given they may only be switched on for an average of an hour per week!

Five metres of decent LED strip can easily be had for around 15 Euro these days. My house lighting is all done with LED strips. I did wind up with one bad reel which degraded very quickly but all the rest (5050 and 5630 sizes) have been fine.

On Fri, 8 May 2015 08:24:31 +0100, "Woody" declaimed the following:

And how much will it cost to replace the bulbs -- the On-switching is the deadliest action; sudden in-rush of current to cold filament.

In a mad moment - Dennis Lee Bieber mumbled :

Just a thort' If you went the CCTV way, which 'I' believe would be cost effective, then a careful choice of camera(s) could provide one which works at night with its own Infra red lighting. Assuming that the bell room is nearly dark then there would be no need for mains driven lights. Several years ago some simple cctv was installed in some of the NYorks schools which ran using only multi core (4 )alarm cable which included the supply at 12 volts to drive the camera and the night lights. Similar ones were also used for overnight security inside the maintenance workshop and worked a treat in the dark industrial unit.

Sorry, I cannot give any more details, as I did not buy or install the equipment and am long retired.

I take the point about the bulbs but that can easily be overcome by using a soft start process (which could just be a simple dimmer) or a solid state relay which only switches on at zero crossing - either will ensure a very long bulb life.

I should also point out that in this application it is not difficult to get into the bell chamber - its just a stone spiral staircase as far as I know - but the intention is that visiting ringers or just plain visitors can see the bells from the ringing chamber or even from the church at ground level without the attendant safety risks of getting to and being in the bell chamber. As such the bell chamber needs to be fairly well lit, amongst other things so that any iris on the camera can be well stopped down to give a good depth of field. Not having visitors in the bell chamber also helps with insurance. Someone from the ringing team probably goes to the bell chamber 3-4 times a month twice to fit mufflers or half mufflers for a funeral or commemoration service.

Only if a heavy current is passing through it. In any case the field may well generate no significant interference, because the source (mains) cable and destination (network) cables are twisted at different rates, so the interference cancels out almost completely over any length of cable.

In the case being discussed here, AFAICS no heavy current will pass.

Dave

Agreed.

One issue with IP cameras is there can be significant lag in the system, which may make it less useful if ringers need to see the movement of the bells whilst controlling the ropes.

They can be completely useless for example in enabling musicians to see remote conductors.

Owain

Nice try but on 60m of cable you will have a time delay to the return current for a start, from speed of electricty through copper so the currents do not exactly balance going up and down. Forgetting other aspects of other noise and other issues like is the ring a true ring on both parts, is there current leakage through other ways, does the cable have other issues. The fact that electrostatic and electromagnetic fields exist around wiring wiring is why Voltage/cable detectors work from small distance away from cable and SOMETIMES through plaster.

'zip' ing or tie wrapping still really means fixing at same distances inside its own trunking/conduit is different.

Every metre fixing in an area not sealed of from people (inside a box/trunking could be potential hazard as the wire is classed and loose and can snag easy on passing people or objects they are carrying.

Actually that is there on a few items and at least they being honest. The vast majority are not that status and gave you somewhere to start and some manufacturers names.

There was plenty of choice there, many with datasheets of day/night camera setups and wiring just add monitor.

What??? Have you ever actually studied electronics?

The bigger problem is electrostatic interference down to arcing somewhere along the line etc.

However its not likely top be a persistent problem with CAT5 and is not the reason to separate them. That is a safety issue - the theory being that there should be distance and several separate insulating layers between mains voltage and anything deemed 'low' voltage which does NOT carry any requirement for being safety-earthed etc.

:-) well yes, he is partly right - EM fields do exist round mains cables - but not because of reasons of time delay.

The fields are more ES that EM tho. because mains voltage is not balanced about earth on a local system - one side is tied to earth so the average value of the pair is around half that, and will couple in to any thing high impedance nearby with a 50hz hum.

Tht is not enough to upset Ethernet tho, as that is fully balanced, and low impedance. Its a few microvolts in a 100s of millivolts system .

google twa800 for an example