Small UPS

Thanks very much, some useful information there that I can follow up on.

Adrian

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Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

I'd recommend replacing with a small SSD and a USB to SATA cable. It's a

far more power efficient solution in itself, as well as being a lot quicker which will allow the RPi to go back in to a lower power state sooner.

---druck

Thanks, something to consider when the disk is up for replacement.

Adrian

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Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

So use a mains relay to switch the RPi between a wall wart and the battery pack, perhaps with the addition of a capacitor across the RPi input to cope with the switchover.

At three years old, it's already reached the end of its life, so the MTTF specification no longer applies. It is (or should be!) up for replacement already.

David

I've had Hitachi Deskstar (49000 hours run 24x7) and Travelstar (47000 hours IIRC in a Lenovo laptop) disks last a lot longer than that with no special handling or environment.

However, both machines ran smartd so and I read the weekly reports, so knew more or less exactly when they were about to fail. In both cases that were replaced quite close to EOL and without data loss.

As a result I highly recommend running smartd on any system using HDD or SSD drives as their primary storage, i.e. anything that doesn't use an SD card as its primary storage, and keeping at least two generations of offline backups. Currently I'm using WD Elements USB drives for my backups.

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In message , David Higton writes

Weekly smart report generated overnight :

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART STATUS RETURN: incomplete response, ATA output registers missing SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED Warning: This result is based on an Attribute check.

General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection activity was never started. Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection: (25320) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate. Auto Offline data collection on/off support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. General Purpose Logging supported. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 255) minutes. Conveyance self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. SCT capabilities: (0x703d) SCT Status supported. SCT Error Recovery Control supported. SCT Feature Control supported. SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always

- 0 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 177 169 021 Pre-fail Always

- 4141 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always

- 129 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail Always

- 0 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 200 200 000 Old_age Always

- 0 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 075 075 000 Old_age Always

- 18474 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always

- 0 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 253 000 Old_age Always

- 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always

- 30

192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always

- 11

193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always

- 147

194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 114 102 000 Old_age Always

- 33

196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always

- 0

197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always

- 0

198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always

- 0

200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0008 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1 No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 1 0 0 Not_testing 2 0 0 Not_testing 3 0 0 Not_testing 4 0 0 Not_testing 5 0 0 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

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Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

Your disk is a mere youth at 18474 hours: the Hitachi disks I had that died at a bit under 50K hours were much older than that: one was the original disk in a Lenovo R61i that I bought in around 2005 and the other was in a whitebox PC I bought in 2012 with 9000 hours on its disk and then ran 24x7 until the disk died in 2017, which was the same year that the disk in the R61i died.

If the smartd installation didn't also set it up as a weekly cron job, its well worth doing that, but check where it wants to mail the report to and change the configuration as needed so it sends the mail somewhere sensible, i.e. to your mail server if there's one on your LAN or to your usual mail address.

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In message , Martin Gregorie writes

I don't have smartd, I've got smartctl, which as you've suggested, I set up with a cron job that emails the report to me. I think that I did that around the time the disk was installed.

Adrian

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Hmm I have eight rather old (made in 2012) 2TB 3.5" SAS drives each with over 50K hours in my house NAS, none of them have yet reported so much as a correctable error.

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Hello Martin,

MG> If you don't mind the physical size, use a 7Ah 2v SLA (SLA = Sealed Lead MG> Accumulator, Aka A motorcycle BATTERY) with a continuously attached MG> float-type charger and a solid state 12v->3v DC converter.

Why not make it +5.1 Vdc= in stead of 3 V? Note the Pi is very critic at 5 V, so make that 5.1 Vdc= ! Even a low voltage drop would reset the Pi. And make it at least 3 Amps for the new Pi 4B.

MG> This will definitely work and looks like it can be assembled for around MG> 40 quid.

I have seen it at the RISC OS.be and T.I.N.A. Linux club in Mortsel.be near Antwerp.

Some people want to sit at the best chair there is for the most lowest price possible, normally paid for a bad chair.

Henri.

Hello NY,

Yes, you could do that with domestic Lead Acid traction accumulators and a good charger combined with a 12 or 24 Vdc= to 5.1 Vdc= converter. Do not use car starter batteries for this.

That's doable with a bigger traction lead acid accumulator and chager/inverter combination, even better when sunpanels and/or a windmills are available. Inland ships use the same technics. Some also have a water generator ;-). At the river they produce their own electricity.

We do the same here with inland ships and a 230/400 Vac~ three phase generator and accumulator chargers and 3 inverters of 3000 VA.

You only need first the Zero line earthed, a 30 mA RCD switch in the inverter output of the Phase and Zero and a 16 Amps current breaker in the phase line for the correct safety of lives. Lower that currect breaker value if the inverter has less capacity.

Henri.

Hello Martin,

How do you do that?

Another solution could be to start a generator if the power outage is longer dan say 1 hour. Or better use the Voltage low signal to start the generator. Many inland ships do that.

Henri.

Hello Folderol,

Yes.

That light bulb is placed in parallel I asume? What capacity in Watt's you need?

Make that 5.1 or 5.2 Vdc=, as 5.0 V is to low for the Pi to operate safely in the long run.

Yes, the highest Voltage will feed the load. Victron Energy in Almere.NL makes a battery combiner with two

80 A Shottkey diodes for 12 or 24 Vdc= usage ;-) Used for dual power safety critical users, like VHF, AIS and ECDIS. I build an ECDIS with a Pi and OpenCPN chart viewer software. 5.0 Vdc= minus 0.6 Vdc= diode Voltage drop is to low for the Pi. You need 5.1 Vdc= with 3 Adc= at the Pi's power input.

Yes.

Only when the power outage is during too long ;-(. But then you can start a generator, or better use sunpanels and/or windmills.

A relay makes it more complex and less faultproof. KISS = Keep It Stuped Simple ;-).

Henri.

Hello Lew,

The problem is that they give you only +5.0 Vdc=. The Pi wants 5.1 Vdc= and at leasts 2.0, 2.5 or now even 3.0 Adc= for the Pi 2B, 3B and now 3 Amps for the new Pi 4B. These machines have no good capacitors to buffer a low Voltage drop. That's the biggest problem, hence the wish for 5.1 or even 5.2 Vdc= and at least 3 Amps continuesly.

But beware not to use a high Amperage power supply to any (old) Pi. When you take to much power at i.e. the 2 or 4 USB2 ports, then the Pi's power input port will damage (fuse blown), even if the Amperage of the power supply is suitable to feed the USB demands. The Pi 1B, may only be feeded with 5.1 Vdc= at 2.0 Adc= total So you can only draw 1.0 Adc= from the two USB ports total. Do not use the new 2.5 or 3 Amps power supply for that old machines. The Pi 1B+, 2B, 3B and 3B+ may only be feeded with 5.1 Vdc= at 2.5 Adc= The old 2.0 Adc= power supply is to light for a Pi 1B+, 2B or 3B with all 4 USB2A ports filled, each drawing the max 0.5 Amps per port! The Pi 4B wants 5.1 Vdc= at 3.0 Adc=. So the best Idea is to mark those power supplies for each model Pi to prevent using the wrong power supply at every Pi.

If in doubt, use a sufficiently separate powered USB2 hub, i.e. with at least 2.0 Amps for a four port USB2 hub model, and ad 0.5 Amps more for every port extra above 4. I saw some people using a 7 ports USB hub with only a 2 Amp supply, arg ;-(. Murphy will catch them the sooner or later. Amperage calculation is not the strongest point of some users.

Henri.

each

Who made them and what grade are they?

I'm currently using WD Blue everywhere, but think I should probably have put a WD Red in the always-on house server, but since the Blue's are only two years old, hopefully it will be a long time before they fail.

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50,000 hours is for average use.

Our Unix servers used to get thrashed and 20,000 was the point at which we expected something to to look great.

A friend who thrashed a machine 24x7 (doing massive matrix computations) use to get 7000 hours.

on a personal desktop I'd expect 100,000 hours

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Its not time dependent - its wear related to usage. Spin time and number of seeks is very relevant

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Can this be fixed with having two in parallel ?

Both attached to the Pi and having a device (relays or something) to see that only one is loaded at a time, and switch every hour or so? (shutting of loading for both , wait a sec or two, and then turn on loading for the other one)

/----- battery ----- Relay I --- Wallwart -- wall Pi-- \----- battery ----- Relay II --- Wallwart -- wall

Pi should control the relays

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