Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today

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Is a cooler mandatory? The GPIO block contains power pins able to
theoretically power a fan.

Thank you, 73,

--  
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
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Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:11:54 +0000, Don Kuenz wrote:

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fan-transparent
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The write-up in The Register:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/24/raspberry_pi_4_model_b/


Says it isn't needed for light loading, but suggests you should fit one  
for heavy computing loads. It seems that the Pi 4 is capable of strong  
enough self-throttling to avoid damage, but that this will impact its  
throughput.  

A look at pics of the Pi 4 would seem to suggest that fitting a decent  
sized heatsink may prevent expansion boards being fitted and/or  
drastically interfere with the airflow over the heatsink if a low profile  
one is fitted under the expansion board, but The Register doesn't make  
any comments about this.

The various connectors on the main board have either been replaced by  
smaller ones or moved, so existing cases will either be unsuitable for  
the Pi 4 or will require some hacking to gice access to some connectors.
  

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Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today


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tempreature specs are temperature ranges thet thing is guaranteed to  
work within

Ive seldom found kit that wouldnt work fine below zero.

I did work on an ICE that packed up at 28C air temps. It was specced to 27C.

Mangement installed airconditioning for that, not for us hardware and  
software boys.



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and people tell those stories because everyone important believes them.  
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Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
On Monday, 24 June 2019 19:59:21 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher  wrote:
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I had a Gateway Anykey keyboard that wouldn't work below about 10 deg C.

As my flat in winter dropped to about 5 deg C overnight I had to put the gas fire on for an hour or so before I could get online.

Owain


Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
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You must have been "freezing" if you actually lived/slept in that flat.  
There's a limit to what hot water bottles and many layers of blankets and  
duvets can do to keep you warm in a room that is 5 deg C - especially for  
the exposed parts of your body such as your head.

How warm did you heat it during the day, for it to cool down to 5 deg C  
overnight?

I feel very cold if the room temperature drops even to 10-15 deg rather than  
normal 20 deg, so 5 deg must feel very cold.

Occasionally when we ran out of coal and (bottled) gas at the same time  
(faulty changeover gas valve and cockup with ordering more coal...) the  
normal temp in our cottage (thick stone walls) would drop to 10 deg and I  
had great difficulty getting off to sleep and staying asleep, even with a  
panel radiator (the only remaining form of heating) left on overnight to  
heat the bedrooms.


I often think that people in the days before central heating, when fires  
were not kept in overnight and advice was to sleep with an open bedroom  
window, must have been made of much sterner stuff than me ;-)  


Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
On 26/06/2019 13:51, NY wrote:

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Oh dear. Ad s a child I remembeer scrapining the ice off the INSIDE of  
the bedroom windows..

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It does. IIRC thermal underwear, pajamas, and as many government surplus  
'horse blankets' as we could pile on the bed, and indeed under us as  
well. Heatloss through the mattress was not trivial.

And they wonder why thermometers to day near any populated place read  
higher...

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The secret is enough bedclothes.


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Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
On Wednesday, 26 June 2019 16:49:52 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher  wrote:
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I remember ice on the inside of the double glazed windows, and I wasn't a child either.  

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Two duvets and an eiderdown above and a foam camping mat below.

Owain


Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
NY wrote:
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The room I sleep in gets below zero in winter. But admittedly, when I
wake up I go to where it's warmer and close the door behind me, so my
keyboward will not unsually get that cold. But my alarm clock, or
whatever contraption I use to fulfill that purpose, will.

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Hu? That, or a bit below that, is the ideal temperature to sleep at. (I
can and do afford blankets, though.) Where I do get real problems
sleeping is right now, with night tempatures in the bedroom well above
15 Cel, and from 20 Cel upwards I really suffer.

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Seems so. But I'm a weakling and I do not wash in water, where I had to
brake the on top first.

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Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
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I've heard it said that it is best to sleep at 10 deg C or so. It's always  
puzzled me because if it's so cold that your extremities feel cold and you  
can't get to sleep or you wake up periodically because you're cold, then  
you're not exactly getting a good night's sleep. OK, you can use lots of  
blankets and duvets, but that still leaves your head uncovered (and I don't  
have a lot of hair any more as insulation!) and it's difficult to keep that  
covered up without affecting your breathing.

I like to sleep in a room that's at normal room temp (about 20) with just a  
duvet. If it's a comfortable temperature during the day, then it's a  
comfortable temperature at night with the addition of duvet to make up for  
lack of movement meaning the body produces less heat. Why anyone should want  
to sleep at a lower temp than that bewilders me.

A very hot night, during a summer heatwave, is no fun: I've sometimes slept  
with a desk fan on the bed next to me, wafting me with air to cool me down  
(ie increasing evaporation of sweat).


The last house I remember that had problems with ice on the inside of the  
windows was my grandparents' Victorian house: single glazed (and with gaps  
between the sash and the frame) and no central heating - just coal fires in  
the living room and kitchen which died down at night. Childhood memories of  
shivering all night, despite loads of blankets and eiderdown; not wanting to  
get up in the night for a pee; wrapping blankets round my head, leaving just  
my nose and mouth exposed.


I don't normally feel the cold during the day, but I do at night.


My optimum temperature range is a lot narrower than that of a Raspberry Pi  
;-)  


Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:31:29 +0200

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    Ugh nasty, I took some pains to arrange that my house is warm
throughout after growing up in places like that. The funny thing is that
when you insulate and ventilate[1] well enough[2] to achieve that you use
less fuel than having some bits warm and some freezing.

[1] ie. via an air/air heat exchanger.
[2] Granted this is hard (up to impossible) to do as a retrofit

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Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
On 27/06/2019 13:39, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
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Yes.
Of all the things of childood I am happy that modern living has  
elminated, well at least till the Greens have their way, it is being  
24x7 cold and shivering.

And severe air pollution. The fuss made about a little diesel when we  
had sulphurous coal smogs, is astonishing.



Humidity changes that by a couple of degrees..dry air in winter I prefer  





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Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
On Wednesday, 26 June 2019 13:51:32 UTC+1, NY  wrote:
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I was.


At one point I considered sleeping in a balaclava.
  
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16 deg C was warm ;-(

Owain


Re: New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today
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A cooler is not mandatory, per this _Register_ article (shared by a
followup at comp.sys.raspberry-pi):

    Cases and Cooling

    Connector changes aren't the only worries for those looking
    to upgrade. While the Pi 4 is the same size as its predecessor,
    you will likely need a new case due to sockets moving about,
    and we'd also recommend considering a cooling solution.

    In our real-world testing ? using the machine as our primary
    computer for a few days ? things got quite warm. If you were
    to load the thing up with serious tasks, then airflow would
    definitely be a consideration.

    Upton warned us that the Pi would start "managing its clocking"
    - aka dialing clock rates down and performance back a bit to

    warmer than the Model 3 B+: idle power is roughly the same, but
    we can draw about 1W more under full load."

    Our Pi 4 Model B, sat on a desk without a case, hit 69 degrees
    just writing this piece in LibreOffice. Those keen to hammer  
    their Pis, in terms of workload, would therefore be wise to  
    look at options for keeping things cool.

    (excerpt)
    
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/24/raspberry_pi_4_model_b/

Thank you, 73,

--  
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
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