Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router

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Has anyone used a Raspberry Pi ZeroW (or another Pi, plus a USB WiFi
adapter) as a WiFi router?

As my existing WiFi router already connects to the internet using a
USB mobile broadband modem, this might suit me more than most people,
but there is an OpenWrt image for the Raspbery Pi:
https://openwrt.org/toh/raspberry_pi_foundation/raspberry_pi

My cause for looking down this path is that I want to set up a HTTPS
to HTTP proxy on the router to serve all HTTPS connections to
computers on my local network via unencrypted HTTP. This is because
all the stupid websites forcing HTTPS (when it isn't needed) are
making it difficult to keep all the software on my various computers
compatible with the various and ever-changing encryption protocols
required.

Currently I'm using a Netgear DGN2200 router, with OpenWrt installed.
However for starters there insn't enough Flash storage space (8MB) to
install all the software required to run the proxy, and beyond that
it's doubtful that the 32MB RAM and 300MHz CPU would be able to
do the job without slowing everything down.
https://openwrt.org/toh/netgear/dgn2200

The Raspberry Pi ZeroW with a 1GHz CPU and 512MB RAM should be fast
enough, and as I'm only using WiFi and USB in the existing router,
it should have all the hardware that I need built in. It would use
less power as well.

The main thing that I'm worried about though is the WiFi range. I
should be able to solder on a connector for an external antenna
as described here:
https://www.briandorey.com/post/raspberry-pi-zero-w-external-antenna-mod

However looking deeper it seems that my existing router may have
more transmitting power (28.11dBm) than the Pi ZeroW (17.0dBm).

I don't really want a significant drop in my WiFi range, so would
it be better to use a Pi Zero (non-W) and a USB WiFi adapter? In
which case, which WiFi adapters should I look for to suit this
application?

Years ago I compared the WiFi transmitting power specifications from
FCC tests for various different WiFi routers in order to get an idea
of what's "good". As noted above, the Pi ZeroW compares poorly to
the router that I chose before based on this comparison. However I'm
not sure if I might be failing to consider other important figures
from the tests (besides the antenna, which will be changed for the Pi
ZeroW).

In case it helps, or to satisfy any curiosity, here is the list
of router transmitting power with the Pi ZeroW added:

Raspberry Pi ZeroW
 -17.0dBm maximum WiFi (any channel/standard)
 -2017

Netgear DGN2200
 -28.11dBm on chn. 6 802.11g, 22.56dBm on chn. 6 802.11b
 -Two antennas
 -2010

Linksys WAP200
 -18.51dBm on chn. 6 802.11g, 16.55dBm on chn. 6 802.11
 -2007

D-Link DIR300 A1
 -24.98dBm chn. 11 802.11b, 23.19dBm chn. 11 802.11g
 -2007

Billion BiPAC 7300G
 -21.07dBm chn. 6 802.11b, 15.14dBm chn. 6 802.11g
 -2007

Motorola SBG900i
 -16.05dBm chn. 1 802.11b
 -2003

Apple AirPort Extreme A1034
 -18.4dBm chn. 11 802.11b?
 -2003

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Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

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FWIW I suspect you'll cause yourself more grief trying to strip TLS from  
all traffic than having to cope with (what should be) a tiny number of  
b0rked TLS problems ...


Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
On 14/04/2019 04:16, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
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Yes, I do it with the standard Stretch Raspbian on a PiZeroW and a PiB+  
plus USB wifi dongle.


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Wow.. madness. Just keep your shit up to date.



Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router.
Hello All,

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Interesting.
I would like to create a 3G/4G USB Dongle to RJ45 EtherNet router
with DHCP server on both IPv4 and IPv6 and a GigaBit Switch for feeding
internet access to all the computers on board an inland river ship in Europe.
WiFi IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac at both 2.4 and 5 GHz can be recreated with any
good RJ45 EtherNet to WiFi AccessPoint.
Would an old Raspberry Pi 1B suit for this need?
Off course besides a NetGear GS108 switching hub and a WiFi AccessPoint.

I have a 3G Huawei E122 HSPA USB stick, but do not know how to build up an  
internet connection under Raspbian Stretch with it.
Can anyone give me help to get it working?
My provider is xs4all.nl and that 4G sim works correct in my Option GlobeSurfer  
III+ mobile 3G router as used on many inland ships here.

I know this can also be done with a recent model FritzBox router and the right  
USB 3G/4G Dongle (which ones?),
but doing it via a Pi gives a better kick.
So I would like to get that Pi route also working.
I did not get that Huawei E122 USB stick working on my FritzBox 7369.
May be it is not correct recognised at that FritzBox model?

For your information;
I am already running Raspbian Stretch (2018 version) on a Raspberry Pi
2B, 3B and 3B+ with OpenCPN 4.99.0 AIS+ECDIS vieuwer,
inclusive AIS data streamer to other machines via RJ45 EtherNet and WiFi.
Yes I know I have to update that Raspbian Stretch to a 2019 version ;-).
And on a Raspberry Pi 1B(+) is RISC OS running with !ROSBink 1.30 for FidoNet
access.

Henri.


Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router.

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What is she made of?  Any sort of metal superstructure will interfere with
transmission and might act as a partial Faraday cage.

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A Pi is just another computer in this context.

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You need to set up a temporary router, try it in several places and walk
around the ship with a mobile to find the best spot.

You may find it best to set up a low power AP switch on a different channel
in each compartment and link those back to a master router via RJ45 - can
you get access to the ship's wiring loom conduits?

You may not need a computer - a simple WiFi switch may be enough but if you
do need something programmable you will find several Pi based solutions to
this type of problem online - try pimylifeup.com to start with.

Cheerio,

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Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
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Great, any observations comparing the Pi ZeroW with the Pi B+'s WiFi
dongle, or a normal WiFi router?

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That would mean picking up development of at least one application
which I have not found a good maintained equivalent for, plus
keeping one thing up to date will always be easier than keeping
everything up to date.

Anyway, it's a road that I want to go down having already got plenty
fed up with trying to keep things that don't deal in secure
information SSL compatible. If it's a dead end, I'm willing to find
out the hard way.

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Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
On 4/13/19 9:16 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
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I have not personally done so.  I know (of) some people (1 or two  
degrees removed) that have done so.  The general consensus seems to be  
1) that it will function and 2) that the wireless radio on the Pi has a  
tendency to burn out (or otherwise be under powered) for use in an  
Access Point.  They resoundingly recommend the little USB dongle that is  
an AP with a small rubber duck antenna.

I've heard of this type of config being used for a LOT of things, not  
just AP use cases.  (Sniffers, intrusion detection, reconnaissance, etc.)

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My biggest concern would be the bandwidth and any constraint /  
contention for the USB bus.

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I've pontificated the same or a slight variation on the theme.  My use  
case is for newer clients to connect to older servers that can't be  
updated.  It sounds like you're primarily worried about older clients  
that can't step up to the new standards.

sslstrip comes to mind.  I've not used it before.  Check it out.

I'd also consider Squid as it supports bump-in-the-wire SSL  
interception.  (You need to put a cert in client device's trusted Root  
CAs, but that shouldn't be a problem for you.)

I'd think you could configure Squid to strip HTTPS and / or provide a  
consistent maintainable HTTPS / TLS / SSL that your devices can support  
while it can step up to talk to what ever level of security on the  
outside.  Plus, it can cache things for you.  ;-)

I'm sure that there are other options.  That's jut what jump out at the  
moment.

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You have your opinion, and I have mine.  I see no reason to debate which  
is correct.

Feel free to ask questions if you want to have a technical discussion  
(with as few opinions as possible).

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I get the impression that a Pi Zero W might not be the best choice.  But  
that a regular Pi might be acceptable.  Or some comparable SBC.

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Intriguing.

I don't know if or how it would effect the burnout that I was mentioning  
above.

I've got to say, I would take a look at some of the GL-iNet's small  
router / AP boards.  I think they've got some close to regular Pi  
prices, run OpenWRT, have external antennas, and can be powered via  
Power over Ethernet.

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Remember, Tx power is not all that it's cracked up to be.  Sometimes you  
get better overall service with more lower power devices than fewer  
higher power devices.

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I think I would use the USB WiFi adapter in favor of the WiFi adapter  
built into the Pi Zero.

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Interesting data.  Thank you for sharing.



--  
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
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Thanks, I didn't think there would be a risk of it actually burning
out. That would be no good.

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When you say "the", does that suggest a specific model?

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That's a good point. Currently I'm only getting a maximum download
speed under 300KBytes/s via mobile broadband, and I don't do that
much bulk data transfer on the local network. I do want to move from
3G to 4G though.

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Yes, old clients that web servers won't talk to are my only worry.

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Thanks, I'll look into that.
https://moxie.org/software/sslstrip/

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Gah, I actually searched for "squid" and almost clicked the Wikipedia
page about the things with "large eyes, eight arms and two
tentacles". :)

Ah, this looks better:
http://www.squid-cache.org/

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Interesting, that does seem a bit more elegant, though I'm not really
concerned about anyone tapping into my local network traffic (even if
they crack my WiFi, they'd have to be on my property in order to get
close enough to pick up the signal).

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Alright I let myself go a little bit, but the first ten responses if
I say that I want to do x in order to strip HTTPS wouldn't be about
x, but would be asking why I want to strip HTTPS.

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I'm following you with the WiFi burn-out issue. But otherwise, I know
that a 1GHz Pentium III is plenty powerful enough to handle the SSL,
so a 1GHz Pi Zero should be powerful enough as well. So even if I
don't use the Pi ZeroW's WiFi, I don't see a need to put more
electricity and money into a faster Pi.

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OK, will do. Though the key thing is the CPU power and RAM, otherwise
I could just stick with my DGN2200 for this HTTPS to HTTP proxy (the
lower electricity usage is just a bonus from using the Pi).

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Umm, well I was hoping to keep to just one device in place of the
existing router, which is doing the job fine on its own. I know the
cost of a Pi ZeroW isn't much, but I would prefer less to configure
and less to go wrong.

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Thanks. To me that's suggesting a Pi Zero (non-W) with a USB WiFi
adapter yet to be determined. I'll have a look at what's available
for them.

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Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
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Just a tangential point...

Don?t forget that a highly directional (dish) antenna can be used to
eavesdrop or participate in a wireless LAN that is far too distant for use
by a typical low gain antenna.  

--  
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II:  http://michaeljmahon.com

Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router

 On 2019 Apr 15 19:11:32, you wrote to Computer Nerd Kev:

 MM> Just a tangential point...

 MM> Don’t forget that a highly directional (dish) antenna can be used to
 MM> eavesdrop or participate in a wireless LAN that is far too distant for
 MM> use by a typical low gain antenna.

very true... we've made directional antenna out of pringles cans and even  
passive ones that can bend the transmission around corners... they're very  
simple to make and plans are readily available :)

-- BOOYA!

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it  
wrong...
... Arguments with furniture are rarely productive.

Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
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That was counting anyone with a highly directional antenna. :)

I looked into using cantenna designs to connect distant buildings
via WiFi once - you'd need one at both ends in order to have some
sort of hope. Plus anyone parked by the road for any period of time
out here would be highly suspicous even before you put a big dish
on the roof into the picture. Other houses are at kilometer distances
away.

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Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
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It works well for light traffic.

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How many devices?  The Pi0 can handle ten or so gamers concurrently
fetching small text files but two or three downloading graphics makes it
sweat...

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Proxying tends to eat memory - and if you start swapping to external storage
you'll impinge bandwith.

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You might need the bigger pi just for the memory.

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The low power Wifi is a big plus.

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A a general rule the more powerful the wifi signal the slower the transfer
as high power devices are in range of a greater number of competitors for
the channels - so they have to back-off more.  One powerful device can slow
an entire neighborhood including itself.

Aim for the signal to -just- cover the area you need and no more.

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Better to have two or three strategically placed low power (Pi?) APs on
wired connections; never use WiFi extenders, each one you add halves
throughput.

Cheerio,

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Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
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It's just me, so two at most (if I leave something downloadling /
updating while I'm using my laptop, or am transferring between
computers). Though the 3G (soon to be 4G) mobile broadband modem
is on the USB bus as well, I don't know if that would be worse for
performance than the Ethernet adapter. I'm guessing that it's
unlikely to be a problem though - and I usually don't do any form of
streaming.

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Hmm, and swapping to Flash memory on the Pi's SD card wouldn't be ideal
for longevity either.

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Given the price, it might make sense to try it with the Pi Zero
first. If it works, it will use less power as well, if it doesn't,
then I haven't wasted much money on the Pi Zero anyway.

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Ah well, there are no other WiFi networks in range out here in the
middle of nowhere so I can pump out all the WiFi power that I can
get. :) - Some compensation for all the struggle to pick up mobile
broadband signal...

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The existing set-up proves that I don't need to do that, so I'd
prefer to stick with a single unit and have less to go wrong, update,
etc.

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Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
On 14/04/2019 04:16, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
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It would be fine for one or two clients in a small area, but it's WiFi  
and processing power isn't up handling a home full of devices.

[Snip list of routers]

Get yourself a decent router, I recommend ASUS, got a RT-ac68U which is  
superb. It's a fibre router, but I did have to use with USB 4G dongles  
for a month after moving house.

---druck


Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
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My home = one or two clients at any one time. Only PCs.

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That router has half the RAM of the Pi Zero and a lower CPU clock
(though two cores instead of one). I'm sure it's fine for doing the
current job of my DGN2200, but I wouldn't consider changing that if
it wasn't for the need to run the HTTPS to HTTP software, and hence
I started looking outside the range of available routers.

https://openwrt.org/toh/asus/rt-ac68u

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Re: Raspberry Pi ZeroW as a WiFi Router
On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 00:01:43 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@telling.you.invalid (Computer
Nerd Kev) declaimed the following:

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    You might be surprised... My primary TV and satellite box, cell-phone,
four Nooks, a couple of R-Pi 3B, Wii-U (and an older Wii once I get it back
from my father's stored junk) are all WiFi clients (the cell-phone actually
routes data connections over the WiFi in preference to GSM) -- I hardwire
the laptop and main computer, but both have WiFi client capability.
Fortunately my three Blu-Ray players were explicitly purchased without WiFi
-- and I'm not going to run CAT-5/6 to the rooms with the TVs/BD players.


--  
    Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
     snipped-for-privacy@ix.netcom.com  

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