MP3 Player for large libraries

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Hi there,

i am currently looking for an MP3 player to play music from a raspberry pi.

After testing mopidy, which was fine but had trouble managing large  
libraries (50k titles) i am about to test the sql library addon.

Before going into the wrong direction i'd like to ask the community if  
there are any suggestions for my demands:

- can handle large mp3 libraries
- controlable via web interface by smartphone/tablet
- local libary on disk

Thanks - Udo

Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 18:16:54 +0100, Newdo wrote:

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Why limit yourself to MP3? FLAC files give much better quality.

Several friends use the Logitech Media Server (LMS) on an RPi as theit  
music indexing server, but I don't know what they use to play the tracks.  
Get LMS here:  

http://downloads.slimdevices.com/
  
I also use LMS to search, and catalog my music collection, but that on a  
desktop PC running Fedora Linux and I use a Squeezebox Touch to play my  
music and streamed Internet Radio through my Quad-based stereo system.

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To me keeping the library server and player functions separate makes morre  
sense: this way you can have a decent librarian sitting over the music  
collection and streaming it to the player(s) which can, in turn  
concentrate in doing a good job of playing music.  

Of course, ymmv

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LMS does all this. You can control it directly from a web browser or from  
the controls on your player(s). You can select and play tracks using  
either interface but only the web browser can run maintenance tasks such  
as cataloguing recently loaded albums.


--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
Op 27-11-18 om 19:41 schreef Martin Gregorie:
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 squeezelite can be used as client on raspbian or any other linux
distribution

Greatings Tycho

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Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
Martin,

thanks for the hint, works great with my collection.

The next (hopefully last) problem is the steady access to the disk drive.

I am using an SSD drive which is permenently written to. (journalling?)

The collection stays most of the time unchanged so there is no need to  
write anything to disk as long as the library stays the same.

Suggestions welcome...

- Udo



Am 27.11.2018 um 19:41 schrieb Martin Gregorie:
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Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 15:18:34 +0100, Newdo wrote:

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Good to hear that.
  
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I have a single drive in my server (Dual Athlon, 4GB RAM, running Fedora  
28 x64) with a single 500 GB HDD installed. This works well despite the  
PC being a bit long on the tooth. I've had it 10 years and according the  
smartd its original disk had 9,000 hours when I bought the PC. That disk,  
IIRC a Hitachi 3.5" 250GB unit, died at 47,000 hours at the beginning of  
last year. Its replacement is currently at 15,000 hours and is a WD Blue  
3.5" 500GB drive, i.e. consumer grade with a MTBF of around 50,000 hours.  

I slipped up there: since I run the server 24x7 I should have bought a WD  
Red 3.5". The spec for this has an MTBF of 1,000,000 hours, twice the  
number of start/stop cycles of the Blue (600,000 vs 300,000) and a 3yr  




--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On 11/12/2018 15:48, Martin Gregorie wrote:
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The fact that the server is up 24x7 is not so significant as the disk  
being hammered 24x7 with multiple reads writes and seeks.

A friend used to blow disks doing continuous access in under a year -  
8000 hours

I get about 40,000 hours our of my server disks.


--  
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as  
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

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Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 19:25:34 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

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So have I - since I switched to WD disks. Hitachi look pretty good too,  
seeing that the one in my server made it to 47,000 hours before dieing.

The point I was making is that the WD Blue series disks are optimised for  
good performance in desktop PCs while the WD Red are optimised for server  
and NAS with much longer estimated[*] MTBF and twice the number of start/
stop cycles than Blue disks. Since WD Red are a lot less than double the  
price of the same capacity WD Blue it also makes financial sense to use  
them.

[*] 1,000,000 hours MTBF has to be pure sales-inspired hype since no disk  
drive has ever been test run for anything like that: hard disks were only  
invented 65 years ago while a million hours is a little over 114 years!
  

--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
Martin Gregorie wrote:
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I think they calculate it as: test 1000 drives and 1 fails at t = 1000 h.



Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On 11/12/2018 20:56, Martin Gregorie wrote:

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That depends on definitions.

E.g. Aircraft structures are subjected to many short 'test flights' in  
the lab to pressurise and depressusrise tham way faster than they are in  
service so that they *can* give lifetimes in years *of normal use* by  
subjecting then to months *of abnormal use*.

I suspoect it is the same here. They will hacve looked at wer rates  
coimpared with standrad disks and extrapoloated...uing real disk failure  
rates as the initial value



--  
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On 11/12/2018 20:56, Martin Gregorie wrote:

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They are generally calculated from populations, accelerated testing  
and/or predictions.
It is a mean figure usually with a normal distribution and so it can  
fail at 10 hours with a massively low probability and the disk could  
still have an MTBF of 1M hrs.

It may be sales hype but that does not mean that it is untrue.
It also does not mean that it is true.

Andy



Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
AndyW wrote:
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Bathtub curve. It only becomes low after about 100 h.

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Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On 12/12/2018 07:58, Axel Berger wrote:
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The bathtub curve for failures is largely discredited. 89% of failures  
show no age relation although 72% do show early life failure and so  
burn-in is important to drive the equipment past the ELF period.

Where did you get the 100h from, it seems like an arbitrary number?

Andy

Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
AndyW wrote:
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It was, a rough guess to show the order of magnitude I expect.

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Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
Am 12.12.2018 um 08:58 schrieb Axel Berger:
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Part A of the bathtube curve (infant mortality) decribes the time period  
wherein th MTBF is decreasing.
This is not a fixed period since it depends on the causes for this  
mortality (quality of processes etc.)
It could be shortened by identifying these causes and improving the  
production process.

It is nicely desribed in this document:

https://www.weibull.com/hotwire/issue21/hottopics21.htm

- Udo


Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On 2018-11-27, Newdo wrote:
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The canonical free software answer is mpd (and your client of choice) to
control indexing and playback, and some lightweight stream player such
as mpv or even omxplayer to do the actual generation of audio. (I run
mpd on the server where the music is stored, and stream it to a Pi.)

Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
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I combine that in one Pi, where mpd itself plays the audio to hdmi (Pi
hooked up to an av-receiver which in this case acts as just a stereo audio
amp).


Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 19:13:31 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

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I wandered over to its website, but was less than impressed with the  
documentation, in particular:  

- it mentioned recoding music files but didn't give a list of file
  formats that it was prepared to recode

- there was no description on how it catalogues music files, i.e.  
  does it only use exif tags (and if so, how) and what, if any
  information it gets from the file structure holding the music files
  and/or playlists. No info about what playlist formats it can use either.

- a few screen shots of its web pages would be nice too.

This is not meant to sound like an attack on mpd because I have exactly  
the same issues with LMP and its very similar lack of information about  
these same points.  

It all makes me wonder if their developers ever talk to users: In the  
case of LMP its because the developers run the forum and treat it as  
strictly a way for users to talk to them (and only them) and as a  
replacement for any system and user documentation: IOW the way to  
configure LMP is to install and start it and then use its help pages to  
find out how to configure and customise it. Anything you don't understand  
can only be sorted out via the forum: not an entirely satisfactory manual  
replacement.  
  

--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
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It's fairly shit in that regard, yes, but I like its simplicity. "man mpc"
has all the info. (mpc is the commandline controller)


Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On 2018-11-27, Martin Gregorie wrote:
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If it had any. It doesn't. It listens on a TCP port. Anything webby is
the job of client software.

(Your other objections are entirely reasonable.)

R

Re: MP3 Player for large libraries
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 22:02:52 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

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OK, I misunderstood the documentation it does have then, which (I  
thought) implied that it provided a web interface for controlling its  
housekeeping activities.
  

--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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