Forth

Where its successors (68000, ARM) fall down is in lacking the extra layer of indirection on all addressing modes.

But a bit OTT in the case of the Data General Nova, where the MSB set in an indirect memory reference means keep deferring :-(

Reply to
Gareth's Downstairs Computer
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I have expressed my opinion, which you have challenged and to which I further replied.

You were first to be free with unpleasantness such as "tedious repetition", but all I did was to point out that you were hoist by your own petard.

It did seem to me at the time, but without comment, that your posts were tinged with emotion, which you now confirm by your post above.

I repeat, FORTH is a fun thing to play with, but it is not a serious contender for software projects today.

In respect of Charles Moore's invention, FORTH gave interactive development in the world of mainframes as they existed at the time.

Absit invidia.

Reply to
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

Not at all. Mr.Pelc had already made insinuations about bad programmers who should not be employed, and my comment reflects my regret at having once set on an employee who fitted such a description.

Reply to
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

As you say, you have not used FORTH.

Reply to
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

I didn't say that, I said I haven't used it enough to know for sure what it's like for large projects (IOW I've never used it for a large project). I have used it enough to believe that it can be used to write large maintainable programs.

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Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays 
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun 
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Reply to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot

I dabbled briefly with a CP/M version on my IMSAI, and got as far as writing a Sieve of Eratosthenes program. It was kind of fun. Still, it would be fun to see a real-world application and see how useful stuff is implemented.

Forth love if honk then

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/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) 
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Reply to
Charlie Gibbs

Easily.

Stephen

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Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com 
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time 
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Reply to
Stephen Pelc

Here was me hoping for "Correctly".

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Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays 
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun 
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Reply to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot

That was common in the minicomputers of that era (late 60's), like Honeywell DDP-516 and DDP-316, HP 2114, HP 2116 & co.

The PDP-11 was remarkably advanced at that time, as was also the IBM S/360, but for different reasons.

One of the advanced architectures well ahead of its time was the HP 3000.

--

-TV
Reply to
Tauno Voipio

Confused, for I thought that you were ignoring me?

Just had a look at your website. Doesn't give a professional outlook when it refers to the next training courses in 2016.

I was surprised at the prices demanded for your software products when you consider that GCC is essentially free issue.

But what seems strange is your request for an NDA when buying some of your products.

Been looking at the 64 bit instruction set of the RPi3 of recent, and did think about how to implement a FORTH in ARM, and what I'd do is to have the primitives implemented by a jump absolute, with the kernel reproduced at the end of each primitive, with user-defined bricks being called up with the address following the (now necessary) subroutine call.

Reply to
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

In the 80x86, there is a backside here: it ties the DS register to point to the code.

--

-TV
Reply to
Tauno Voipio

When using an interpreter, it is implied that the tokens are in the data segment.

Not such a problem in the TINY model when CS, SS, DS, ES and FS all point to the same 64K segment :-)

Reply to
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

If he had asked a better question, he might have got a better answer.

I'm amazed that people here need to be assured that correctness needs to be part of the answer. This a group about Raspberry Pis. In the past the newsgroup has been helpful and polite, as befits a group which may contain a substantial number of newbies.

My flame-proof suit has been well tested on comp.lang.forth, I just didn't expect to need it here, nor did I expect the debating society attitude of some posters.

If I'm just having a sense of humour failure evening, I do apologise.

Stephen

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Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com 
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time 
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Reply to
Stephen Pelc

Then perhaps the Burroughs 5000 deserves a mention, since it inspired the designers of the HP 3000.

And all system software for the natively reverse-Polish B5000 was programmed exclusively in Algol and Extended Algol.

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-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II:  http://michaeljmahon.com
Reply to
Michael J. Mahon

'fraid so, I just thought it a snappier putdown :)

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Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays 
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun 
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Reply to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot

It's a place for discussion, seeking advice (as per the OP) AKA debate !!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

They doing it in an attempt to catch up with languages such as C and C++ in terms of speed. Java, for example, have no problems with byte code (which, in essence, just another name for threaded code.) If I understand correctly, it still should be possible to use code optimizations with threaded code or even generate mixed threaded and native code automatically.

Reply to
Pabst Blue Ribbon

Actually Java uses JIT extensively (especially on a server) which compiles the byte code into native at point of first use and keeps it cached.

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Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com 
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Reply to
Andy Leighton

Browsing through this ...

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... and this ...

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it would seem that such a mix is standard, edspite claims made to the contrary about completely compiled FORTH! :-)

Reply to
Gareth's Downstairs Computer

What would the benefits be of mixing threaded and native code?

Especially in embedded systems, speed is always an advantage. Among other things, efficient code generation reduces power consumption. For the last 15 years or so, I have not written an ARM/Cortex interrupt handler in assembler - I just let the compiler do its job. For reasons like this, our TCP/IP stack contains no assembler (unless you want it) and runs on a range of CPU architectures.

Stephen

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Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com 
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time 
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Reply to
Stephen Pelc

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