Development

That should be about right. I first installed a then-current Linux system in November 1992 and it included TCP/IP networking and X.

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Rob
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On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 11:54:47 +0100, John Williamson declaimed the following:

LaTeX isn't an editor... If it were, then so is PostScript, PDF, and HP-PCL.

But before you have that icon, you had to install something...

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	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN 
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Dennis Lee Bieber

On 09 Jun 2013 15:54:55 GMT, Rob declaimed the following:

I distinctly recall having to install a NetManage "Internet Chameleon" package on a miniscule Toshiba laptop running WfW3.11. My Amiga monitor had malfunctioned (and took most of a year to find a shop that could repair it enough to be useful with my graphics card, though it still didn't work properly with native Amiga resolution). I'd been running AmiTCP for a few years by that stage.

Heck, Netcom's first Windows connection capability was a proprietary stack (which is why I was running TIA in a dial-up shell to activate a SLIP type connection). {That was a fun period... my login script for VLT was: dial into Netcom shell system, login, exec tia, relinquish terminal, start AmiTCP using the pre-established modem connection, then have VLT convert to Telnet mode to reconnect to Netcom}

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	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN 
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Reply to
Dennis Lee Bieber

On 09 Jun 2013 08:41:35 GMT, Rob declaimed the following:

Tell me about it...

I still need to find a printer driver for my new machine -- since there isn't an official Win7 driver for my old HP (I just need to check the laptop -- I ran through this exercise last year; should be able to locate the substitute model, then just remember how to install and redirect the system to use that model).

I've so far had to install Office 2013 Pro (which wouldn't even install until I wiped out the OEM Office 365 demo), Sony Vegas Pro 11, Finale 12, VB/VC++/VC# 2010 Express, GNAT 2013, Python (in both 32 and 64 bit modes), had to manually install a 32 bit JRE as a pair of applications won't run with the 64 bit JRE. Had to find mystery instructions to get Diablo II to work (strangely, the even older Diablo at least ran, even if the colors were more suited to fairy dust and My Little Pony -- found a registry patch for that too). MySQL and control panel (I don't like the "new" all-in-on vs the older query browser and admin programs). Eudora, Agent, Firefox...

Oh, BTW... You CAN NOT play solitaire with a Win7Pro system "out-of-the-box".

All the M$ games are in the install, but you have to use the control panel "add/remove windows features" to activate the games!

I expect I'll be installing more stuff over the next few weeks, but hope to have enough functioning to replace the decade old WinXP box.

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	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN 
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
Reply to
Dennis Lee Bieber

That's certainly a lot more flexible than the version of tic I was looking at. That had many fewer key definitions and didn't allow for user capability names or I would have noticed them. I started thinking about this stuff (writing a curses-like class library for use in headless Java programs) in early 2009.

I notice that this set of new standard capabilities, the ability to compile a termcap definition and support for user-defined capabilities seems to have come in when the SVR4 version of tic was obsoleted. When was that?

It was in early 2009 when I ran into the lack of a published format for compiled terminfo definition files, discovered that there seemed to be at least two quite different implementations in use at the time, and concluded that it was a lot easier to work from termcap to do what I wanted to do.

Yes. Several years earlier I'd discovered that the microEmacs keyboard capabilities weren't supported in terminfo and I couldn't find a way to deal with that. This may be worth revisiting now that tic has the ability to compile a termcap definition and presumably the termcap compatibility library has similar capabilities.

I'm talking to Martin Whittaker, who maintains the version of microEmacs

4.00 about a related matter (the size of the termcap buffer) at present, so I'll mention the possibility of moving it to terminfo.

Thanks. Interesting reading.

As I said, I'd be really interested to know when these new versions made it into RedHat Fedora. libtermcap has only vanished with the release of F18 a month of three ago and I'm 98% certain that tic under Fedora didn't have user-defined capabilities in early 2009 or I'd have noticed.

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martin@   | Martin Gregorie 
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Reply to
Martin Gregorie

OK, all credibility lost with that statement - I had you down as a professional Linux hater, but you probably just like to whine about anything.

Reply to
Rob Morley

Spot on, and the main reason I do most software development in a terminal window.

I'm still inclined to think that Word for DOS 4.0 was one of the best word processors I've used for exactly the same reason: it was easy to drive it from the keyboard and ignore the mouse. Besides, it was written to run on a 12 MHz PC-AT and fairly screamed on a 40 MHz 386: possibly the fastest WP I've ever used. Word for DOS 5.x was a retrograde step because it introduced drop-down menus. All versions of Word for Windows have been a further backward step because of their still greater dependence on the mouse.

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martin@   | Martin Gregorie 
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Reply to
Martin Gregorie

But why start it here?

The pi is specifically designed as a learning platform that is cheap enough to not be a major problem if you totally screw it up. The fact that you can run a huge number of pre-pack applications is a bonus.

I'd love to get my hands dirty with it, but currently simply do not have the time :(

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W J G
Reply to
Folderol

There's a perfectly good X server in Cygwin. I use it every day.

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Reply to
Huge

I use it every night as well. Tho' my work incarnation is running a bit slow at the moment, and last time I looked was throwing an enormous number of page-faults[1]. It can take 5 seconds or more to redraw a workspace with an emacs window on it, and scrolling an rxvt window up and down with the mouse wheel can lag by tens of seconds.

[1] IIRC, looking at VMsize with Task Manager, its usage would creep upwards over something like thirty seconds, then collapse and start growing again, all the while throwing page-faults.
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Reply to
Ivan D. Reid

and

Editors?

Hah!

cat >

Cheers

Dave R

Reply to
David.WE.Roberts

I seem to remember you showing that to me..or was that a later release?

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Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

or maybe it is fine the ways it was :-)

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Ineptocracy 

(in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I was selliing TCP/IP well before that, for DOS and windows.

I never said it did.

yep.

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Ineptocracy 

(in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

1999 - see
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and change notes beginning here:
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Early on, I thought there was more than one, but eventually decided that the vendor Unix's were essentially the same, other than that the mapping tables needed were different (due to the path they'd undergone since AT&T SVr3). I added tables (the "Caps.*" files) to allow ncurses to be compiled for those tables, and do use them on some machine where I do testing. Between the tables and making ncurses' limit-checking depend on the actual tables in use, I can make it read Solaris (99% like ncurses), HP-UX, Tru64, or AIX. (It's compiled-in - haven't found a reason to make the choice of tables dynamic).

The extended capabilities as term(5) notes are on the end of the data, where none of the AT&T-based implementations cares about. Basically, I look at the entry and "know" that unaccounted-for space in the terminal entry is my extension. So far there's no confusion...

...

similar: the termcap library can see the extended names if they're termcap-compatible (2-character names). See this for some comments:

formatting link

The extension has been there since 5.0; initially I kept in mind some 4.2 (1998) compatibility issues, but after a few years made the database by default install using the tic "-x" option:

formatting link

(I'm not aware that packages alter this - I take for granted that extensions are compiled).

As for the delay - my initial expectation was that other people would adopt it. They generally did not; I did for xterm, and found it useful enough that I decided to make it - see

formatting link
formatting link

Reply to
dickey

Word Perfect was probably my favorite.

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Ineptocracy 

(in-ep-toc?-ra-cy) ? a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Hated it. That vast set of unmemorable functions mapped onto 4(!) function key shifts!

It wasn't useful for our company standard documentation until a rather decent programmer had put a lot of thought into making a usable set of macros and even then you frequently had to resort to 'Reveal codes' (aka the Word Perfect debugger) to sort out unintended messes. Meanwhile, Word for Dos 4 did the same job with a fairly straight forward set of styles and without the need to present the user with an almost perfectly blank screen.

In any case, the arrival of Windows 3.1 sorted all that out. WinWord 1.0a worked tolerably well despite the productivity drop due to the constant swapping between keyboard and mouse while WordPerfect for Windows was such a steaming pile of fetid dingo crap (it couldn't even use the WP 3.1 macro set) that it was quickly binned.

The fact that productivity almost immediately fell still further because WfW 3.11 kept loosing contact with the project shared server and would loose work rather than saving it is quite another story. That we never had that problem in a near contemporary, and much larger, project that used DEC VAX kit and the WPS+ wordprocessor for documentation is, of course, entirely irrelevant....

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martin@   | Martin Gregorie 
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Reply to
Martin Gregorie

or, perhaps, you could have cloned your existing XP system and run it under the free XP virtual PC available for Win-7 Pro.

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David 
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Reply to
David Taylor

I was setting one up for an embedded role today, I was having trouble with SD cards until I tried the inbuilt reader in a colleagues pc (presumably connected to an internal USB header) this reader more than twices as fast as the two cheap USB sd card readers I had been trying unsuccessfully to use. OTOH it could have been because I used the february rasbpian instead found on his PC of the may one...

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Reply to
Jasen Betts

Conversely, secretaries loved it.

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Reply to
Huge

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