desktop switcheroo on Buster

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The Buster install booted without issue and ran through the setup
menus very nicely. I added a personal user and am able to log in
to the CLI, run startx and run applications.

Next I mounted the Stretch microSD and copied my home directory  
to the new installation. No problems, no errors.  

However, after reboot the desktop is now Gnome, not LXDE (or whatever  
subset of it Raspbian used for both the old Stretch setup and the new
Buster installation at least to start with.

Any hints as to how this happened? I tried to stick with defaults  
so far as obvious, never having intentionally invoked Gnome even
as an experiment. Only intentional non-default is the experimental
GL Desktop, which didn't seem to have any effect on the DE.  

My principal objection to Gnome is that it's bigger and slower than
LXDE, but that's based on very old experience. Is it still true?

Oh, here's another oddity: I'm typing this across a wireless network,
but the network icon reports no wireless interfaces found. That's odd.

Thanks for reading and any ideas,

bob prohaska


Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
bob prohaska wrote:
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Not speaking to the specific of *your* gnome or even your underlying  
distro, but 'generally' across linux distros gnome has become the most  
'bloated' resource consuming DE of them all.  All of the DEs based on  
gtk+ have increased use of resources from having gone to gtk3, such as  
XFCE and Mate and LXDE going to Qt instead, except KDE which has managed  
to reduce its resource consumption by achieving more/better modularity.

That opinion is based on booting various live linux distro/s w/ various  
DEs over the years to their default desktop and measuring ram used w/ free.

--  
Mike Easter

Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
bob prohaska wrote:
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DW says the RPi DE is still Pixel, which wp describes as a 'derivative'  
of LXDE and OpenBox, which is how my RPi's DE comes across to me.

RPi site says that the buster desktop's appearance has been tweaked a  
bit to make it flatter.

--  
Mike Easter

Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
On 22/02/2020 20:19, Mike Easter wrote:
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If you want something a bit more sophisticated and less flat, I  
recommend the MATE desktop. It's uses a little more resources than  
Pixel/LXDE, but nowhere near that of Gnome.

---druck



Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
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Chiming in on this sub-thread to agree about MATE and also to suggest
XFCE4 as a possible DE alternative. I'm using it on my latest Raspbian
Lite install and couldn't be happier.

XFCE has been one of my goto DEs on any machine where a tiling window
manager isn't appropriate and KDE is overkill feature wise, but I was
a bit concerned about performance on the Pi. The version on Raspbian
repos isn't the latest one, so it still relies a bit less on GTK3 and
performance is lightning fast. I couldn't be happier, especially as
the features it provides are worth it. In the future though, as they
fully migrate to GTK3 it could change.

--  
Vasco Costa

AKA gluon. Enthusiastic about computers, motorsport, science,
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
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Perhaps I'm mistaken about the DE being gnome, I keyed on the replacement
of the raspberry icon in the upper left by a bare footprint with four toes.
I _though_ that was a gnome trademarke, no? Is there a way to check/select
which DE to use?

Performance seems no worse than with Stretch, which is acceptable for
my purposes. Chromium no longer locks the Pi on weather satellite images,
which by itself is enough to justify the upgrade.    

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska


Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
bob prohaska wrote:
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Gnome logo  
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Gnomelogo.svg/402px-Gnomelogo.svg.png

The tool I like to use to look at various features of a system is inxi,  
which isn't /quite/ as useful in all its reports for rpi, but its

inxi -S

(or add some xx after the -S to get a little more) will tell you the  
inxi read on the system, which reports lxde & openbox; the xx adds  
lxpanel and lightdm.

I don't have your distro loaded at this time, but I'm getting ready to  
write it to a spare SD that I previously used to look at LibreElec and  
OSMC which I didn't care for.

--  
Mike Easter

Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
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That's exactly what replaced the raspberry in the upper-left corner of
the screen.

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Ok, that reports

System:
  Host: raspberrypi Kernel: 4.19.97-v7+ armv7l bits: 32 Desktop: LXDE  
  Distro: Raspbian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)  

So, I don't understand where the Gnome foot came from 8-)

In any case it's no great problem, I just thought I'd made a mistake.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska
  

Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
bob prohaska wrote:
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I'm reading in stackexchange for rpi that the file path is:

/usr/share/raspberrypi-artwork/launch.png

(Someone wanted to put a Mercedes icon there :-)

--  
Mike Easter

Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
bob prohaska wrote:
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I haven't yet booted the 2020 buster, I'm on 2019 Sep; my network icon  
works ok for my wifi.

Also, you can see your network info w/

inxi -Nni

which also shows your WAN IP, which inxi gets from out there on the web  
somewhere.  For that in isolation, I like to use

curl icanhazip.com

--  
Mike Easter

Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
Mike Easter wrote:
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I booted the new 2020 raspbian.  I don't like that so many more apps
were included by default.

My network icon works OK for my wifi.

--  
Mike Easter


Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
It looks as if I'm getting a different DE when I log in as a regular
user. Logged in to the Pi account I get all the familiar icons. Logged
in to my personal account the icons are different. Must be something
to do with adduser behavior. I don't recall it happening with Stretch.

Thanks for reading!

bob prohaska




Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
bob prohaska wrote:
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You can see which groups each user belongs to.

Compare the difference between

groups pi

and the same command for

groups yourotheruser

For some reason, in the 2020 raspbian groups pi doesn't list sudo, but  
sudo works.  I didn't check the groups command w/ the 2019 v.

--  
Mike Easter

Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
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Are you sure? I've not knowingly change anything, but

pi@raspberrypi:/home/bob $  groups pi
pi : pi adm dialout cdrom sudo audio video plugdev games users input netdev spi i2c gpio lpadmin

There's also an /etc/sudoers file, but how that interacts with groups isn't
clear to me. The pi account isn't mentioned in my /etc/sudoers either.

All very confusing.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska


Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 01:56:16 +0000, bob prohaska wrote:

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How did you update to Buster?  
Clean install or via a version upgrade?
How will you do it in future?

It sounds yo me as though you did a clean install, otherwise all the  
changes you made previously should still be there.

All my other systems run Fedora Linux, which was well behind Debian in  
implementing a version upgrade process. Consequently, every 6 months I  
had to do  ac lean install, which was a pain, if I was to run current  
software. However, it did teach me a lesson, which is that its a very  
good idea to make a copy of every file you change in /etc and its  
subdirectories and keep the copies in one of your normal login user. AND  
make regular backups of /home.  

This way, after a clean upgrade you simply:

- restore your backup of /home

- add back the users and groups that aren't standard

- work through the /etc copy, diffing each file, altering your copy as  
needed to include any new parameters and copy the result back to /etc/  
overwriting the newly installed version and restarting the service it  
configures or rebooting to check everythinf still works.

However, making a complete system backup and immediately before doing a  
version upgrade is much easier: nonetheless, I still keep copies of  
anything I change in  /etc.

There is a fuller description, along with suggestions about how to  
include the contents of /usr/local in a backup of /home, here:

http://www.libelle-systems.com/free/

HTH

--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org


Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
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Clean install on Samsung Evo Plus 64 GB card. I used the Desktop
version, the previous setup was, I think, minimal.  

This time I left the pi account undisturbed and made a second
personal account using adduser. That somehow set up a slightly
different DE compared to the pi account. Just how different isn't
obvious. The only clue is a four-toed foot icon in the menu bar,
replacing the raspberry icon which appears for the pi account.  

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Not sure. Still can't get cups to work right, but it's unclear
whether that's related to the choice of installed image.  
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I'm using the Pi as a terminal and attempting to change as little
as possible. I do need occasionally to print. I don't want to
use the pi account for routine activity, preferring to treat it
more like root, which it really is. The Pi runs lots of xterms,
a browser, and maybe some personal productivity software from
time to time. It sits behind a DHCP router.  


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In this case I simply copied /home from the old microSD card
to the fresh install, which worked nicely.

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I didn't _think_ there were enough changes in /etc to cause serious
trouble, ie, I could just fix what went wrong manually. Maybe that's
over-optimistic.

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Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska


Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
On 24/02/2020 11:52, Martin Gregorie wrote:
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Even better, install the etckeeper package. This will store all changes  
to files in etc in git repository. When you edit a file, you can either  
manually commit it with a comment explaining what you have done, or if  
you forget it will automatically commit them on a daily cron task. It  
also detects changes made by the package manager, so its easy to find  
out what happened if things go wrong.

---druck

Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
On a sunny day (Wed, 26 Feb 2020 20:33:07 +0000) it happened druck

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Even better, backup everything on a regular basis
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 31312576512 Feb 24 16:44 raspi_95_24_2_2020_external_sdcard_reader_verify_OK.img
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    35482342 Feb 24 17:19 RP4_95_p1-5_external_sdcard_reader.tgz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  8197553174 Feb 24 19:03 RP4_95_p2-5_external_sdcard_reader.tgz

The first is an image of the complete card made on an other PC (rp4 off, card in other PC)
the other two are the tar -zcvf of both partitions of that card,
Easy to unzip one and get any file back.
It is some more work and needs a reboot, but as I modifiy so much
're-install' or 'update' is not in my books.
Practically every image is a new system.

Hijack and encrypt and ask for bitcoins? back in a 'FLASH'.
Bad card? Want a copy for an other raspi4? etc etc..


I identify the raspis here by the last digit of their fixed IP address.
192.168.178.95 is raspi95 etc.

I have backups that go back to almost the original buster install..
You need a couple of huge harddisks... Every backup is on at least 2 different harddisks\,
one is almost always offline.

This RP4 sees 3.4 TB or so on USB.

raspi95: /mnt/sda2/security/video # df
Filesystem      1K-blocks       Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root        29771644   14467188  14013220  51% /
devtmpfs          1867796          0   1867796   0% /dev
tmpfs             1999892          0   1999892   0% /dev/shm
tmpfs             1999892       8908   1990984   1% /run
tmpfs                5120          8      5112   1% /run/lock
tmpfs             1999892          0   1999892   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/mmcblk0p1     258095      53032    205064  21% /boot
tmpfs              399976          0    399976   0% /run/user/1000
/dev/sda2      3844510712 2845012388 804137660  78% /mnt/sda2
tmpfs              399976          0    399976   0% /run/user/0

So :-)




Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 05:38:28 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

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Good move, but you'll get faster backups and less SSD wear, if you're  
backing up to SD cards or SSDs, if you do it with either rsync or  
rsnapshot.

I use both: rsnapshot for my overnight backup (I used to use compressed  
tar beckups and this brought the backup time down from 3 hours to 8  
minutes AND the backup can be accessed without needing to uncompress/untar  
anything) and rsync for my weekly backup to the set of disks kept offline  
in a firesafe.  

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No need to unzip if you use rsnapshot or rsync, so recovery is faster:  
just find the file(s) by looking through the directory structure and copy  
them back.
  

--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org


Re: desktop switcheroo on Buster
On a sunny day (Thu, 27 Feb 2020 09:16:00 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin

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True

For years I have followed the 3 methods backup system
1) SDcard FLASH
2) normal harddisk (few TB is very cheap) magnetic
3) Blu-ray optical.
I stopped with optical for now as I have about 1000 DVDs and blue-rays
in a big alu lightproof box, mostly movies though, box is full!
Seems magnetic medium still wins.
Have not tried any SSD yet, not sure about the reliability of that stuff,
price is high too.
Any practical experiences?
I must say optical when in constant climate and absolute dark still works here after 20 years...
And then I have some on M-DISC, should last forever but size is only 4.7 GB.. good
for unique movies  and music.
A 32 GB card image should go on a blu-ray.
  

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Indeed with all that harddisk size zip/unzip is not always needed, using md5sum etc is good,
I run verify after making any backup, for that I use dvdimagecmp that I wrote many years ago:
 http://panteltje.com/panteltje/dvd/dvdimagecmp-0.3.tgz
diff also works, but this gives more detail.

And keep a database of all you have!
For example disk 998 (box holds 1000, was almost last year)

998
Tue Oct  8 12:43:07 CEST 2019
BD-R25GB  
Mediarange 4x inkjet printable
LG BH10LS38
Make sure you habve enough disk space.
dd if=/dev/zero bs10%0000000 count24%2 > bluray.iso
mke2fs  bluray.iso
mount -o loop=/dev/loop0 bluray.iso  /mnt/loop
cp stuff /mnt/loop/
du /mnt/loop
umount /mnt/loop
growisofs -speed=4 -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=bluray.iso
dvdimagecmp -a bluray.iso -b /dev/dvd
# df
/dev/loop0       23261268  21022524    1057104  96% /mnt/loop
# l/mnt/loop/  
total 20977548
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root      19095 May  7 23:33 xinutop_manual.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4385000000 Jul  1 18:01 freibeuter_des_todes_german.ts               amovie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root         58 Jul 11 10:40 xinutop-nav-x86-2.4.img.md5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  682624000 Jul 11 10:44 xinutop-nav-x86-2.4.img
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4294705152 Sep  8 01:51 stones_havana_NPO_3-20190907213907-.mts      amovie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  627385344 Sep  8 02:28 stones_havana_NPO_3-20190907213907-.mts1     amovie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3949971456 Sep  8 05:59 stones_havana_NPO_3-20190907235958-.mts      amovie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1993500000 Sep 24 16:53 the_great_wall_2016.ts                       amovie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2354400000 Oct  3 17:05 last_man_standing_1996.ts                    amovie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3172370000 Oct  8 12:39 a_cure_for_wellness_2016__german.ts          amovie

1000 entries like this, in a simple textfile
use
 dvd-list.txt | grep amovie
to list all movies
and it seems I have more than UK TV seems to have... endless repeats there...

283 movies....
LOL

cat dvd-list.txt | grep .img

Who needs a databeast?
locate cat grep is all ye need!

Sorry got carried away maybe have to buy an extra box for a thousand discs :-)



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